Welcome to the Fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

So, what should I expect?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ingun



Joined: 03 Aug 2018
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yoohoo,

I have a lot of thoughts about this topic. Maybe it's best if I bring them up as as separate but related points...

First off, I think for the question "are trans women women?" I feel like this is something where we first have to define "trans" and then define "woman"... I know this might make people go Rolling Eyes, but I feel like this is often an overlooked part of the whole discussion!

Personally, I think trans women are women
. Personally, I have also seen transwomen erase my own gender identity and that of other female-bodied but maybe not wholly female identifying people. I find this regrettable, as I feel the position of white trans women within the trans/genderqueer community mirrors that of white gay men within the gay community... I feel like often they have an easier time being heard than other people within the community. Recently Rebecca Sugar, creator of the cartoon Steven Universe, came out as what she describes a "nonbinary woman," and there were trans women in my social sphere ridiculing the notion that such a thing would even exist. I just... look, I don't have the words for that. It's like entering a clubhouse and then pulling up the ladder behind you.

Also, white trans women are in a unique situation where they frequently come from outwardly a position of high privilege that was afforded to them as cis-appearing men, with all the privilege that entails, while inwardly facing a lot of struggle. There is no getting around the fact that trans women were socialized as cis men, and I have personally witnessed situations that were just... well, not fucking okay! I'm sure we've seen the screenshots, I don't need to link them but... look, how can it be that the people getting the hate and the "choke to death on my transgirl dick" memes are almost always female? Does Graham Linnehan get told to chocke on dick and die? If he does, he bloody does a lot less often than just about any woman who dares wade into this argument!
If you profess to be a lesbian, if you say "yeah I'm a woman who loves women," how does something like that fit with being, well, a woman! If you deploy the same tactics as the incels who think the government's sole purpose should be to provide men with a girlfriend/sex slave maybe re-evaluate your views on women!!!

(I am not saying that anyone here has done or said that, but look I am just so bloody tired of this shite. I am also very, very wary of anyone who uses sexual violence as a joke or as a threat.)

Also, to circle back to privilege, no one deserves a pat on the head for giving up their privilege. I have heard this argument of "well they've given up their privilege so..." so often and well, so what? If you were always a woman, well, welcome to being a woman and being treated as one. Yeah it sucks a lot of the time because the deck is often stacked against you. There is a common theme where trans women have told me how easier they would have had it if they had been born female-bodied like me and... look, I am a survivor of sexual abuse, I have been harrassed at work and in public, I have had to defend myself from being groped on public transport, I work in a male-dominated field now and a lot of the time I have felt doors slammed in my face because I'm not part of the 'Boys Club'... I'm not saying this for sympathy, but because just about every single cis woman I have met has had at least one of these experiences in their past. In fact, I have had it way easy compared to some women I know. Maybe we can agree that everyone has their parcel to bear, and no one's life would not have been necessarily rosy and perfect if they had been born with female plumbing. so like

Quote:
I've been RAPED, BEAT,and been the victim of POLICE BRUTALITY on multiple occasions. so what i'm trying to say is all the shit talking you all do can jump in the back of the bus.


YEAH ME TOO. Probably a lot of other women on this forum. You talk about privilege like abuse and sexual violence aren't a fucking epidemic in America and just about bloody elsewhere on this plant. You say "get off your pampered ass" like you know the experiences of the women on this forum, like you are somehow wise to something they haven't copped to in their time on this planet.

And maybe examine why you think this is something out of the ordinary to experience that you have to stress it and use it as a weapon here. Both of my grandmothers were regularly beaten and raped by their husbands. This is not new, in fac I think during their time this was the rule, rather than the exception. No one should experience rape, no one should be beaten or abused just for trying to live their life. But again, why do you write this like oyu are the only one? My experiences are what drove to me to feel so strongly about feminism being necessary, and to invest my time, money and passion into the projects I have been part of. I want girls to not have to experience what I did. I want them to have resources I had not.

A lot of late transitioning trans women have a really shitty 1950's idea of what it means to be female and also that women have it sooo much easier. That's not on them (but as adults we have to take responsibility for the toxic ideas we carry, too), that is on how we raise boys to be the protagonists of their own stories, while we raise girls, in general, to minimize conflict and be sweet and agreeable and supportive.

This toxic image of what it means to be a woman harms them, but it also harms the women they are around. There is no good answer to this outside of "see the privilege you held and recognize that it is a fake, harmful idea constructed by a broken society." I realize that that is a painful realization that takes a lot of work. As an example, I was part of a conversation where a woman I know was feeling quite shaken after an episode of street harrassment. A trans woman who was part of the conversation offered the unbelievable tone-deaf opinion that the woman, who was shaking with fear should have taken it as a compliment. While I realize that cis women have shitty opinions too 1. no, you don't say that, 2. NO YOU DON'T FUCKING SAY THAT, 3. you have lived as a woman for what a year now. You are like a toddler who is still learning to walk and talk. Maybe hold off on the advice for a hot minute. If someone is terrified, don't tell them to just loosen up and enjoy it.

Cis women of course also have a lot of matrix shit to wake up to, as a rule. We all need to get better and we all need to support each other. But also, if you are a new woman, maybe listen to people who have around doing this been a lot longer than you. I never wanted to either when I was a kid, but sitting down shutting up and listening to other women has led to some of the most valuable lessons in my life.

Transitioning is hard. It's painful physically, emotionally and psychologically. I wish every trans woman the best of luck and for them to grow into the women they want to be.

But I have to wonder... on this forum, why is one of the first topics that was created people demanding to know whether trans women are welcome? why not also "are trans women wlecome here as women and trans men welcome here as male allies?" Oh yes ftms get mentioned sometimes as fig leaf. But really, say transgender once, then go back to trans woman this, trans woman that.

I already know that to some trans women, the answer is "because only mtfs get angry pushback! ftms are treated soooo much better."
Like corrective rape is not a thing that happens to ftms and nonbinary people (and lesbians and and and...).
Like ftms don't get murdered all the time either (people just claim they are lesbians, like with Brandon Teena.)

I'm sorry but... it just makes me angry. A lot of the time it feels frustrating, like trans women aren't fighting for women's rights, or trans rights, or queer rights... they are fighting for trans women's rights. And I'm not willing to give people headpats anymore who will go "fuck you got mine lol!" later on.

Sorry for this being so jumbled, I tried to compress a lifetime of experience into one post, maybe that was a bad idea. I want to love trans women as sisters, but I often feel like a stepping stone instead.


Last edited by Ingun on Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Z6IIAB



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 236
Location: Rogue

PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pacthes, jenny, sorantia and ingun:

Yall people trying to get a fight out of us do realize there's a whole other forum where your opinions on gender and sex will be way more than welcome, right? This forum is from and for anti-porn and anti-prostitution feminists, and for radical feminists. Which means feminists that know women are female human beings. Period. Pun intented. Please, stop preaching to a wall, no one here cares about male's delusions on gender, and I'm sick of all of you desecrating the ghost of feminism Rolling Eyes
_________________
I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too... can't say that went well. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Newfish



Joined: 05 Jul 2018
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ingun wrote:

But I have to wonder... on this forum, why is one of the first topics that was created people demanding to know whether trans women are welcome?

Why was it one of the very first. Why did it blow up. Why is it still the one showing up when I click on the new message link? Why has this topic blown up the majority of radical feminist spaces I've been a part of online, whether because of political obsession and infighting or because of hacking, doxxing, and threats? Regardless of whether trans women are "women," I think it's blindingly obvious that the rest of us need space away from them if we want to be able to talk about anything else.

Fwiw: my friends who are trans come from some of the most fucked up homes. As boys, their fathers told them they'd kill them if they found out they were gay. As a girl, one was literally restrained by her family and had makeup put on her. So I have a fair amount of sympathy, and will generally try to treat them as they would like me to. But it's a coping mechanism for dealing with culturally enforced sex roles, not any kind of truth. They, along with women and a great many men, would be better off if we could get rid of the whole culturally-enforced-sex-roles thing altogether.


Last edited by Newfish on Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Z6IIAB



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 236
Location: Rogue

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ingun wrote:

But I have to wonder... on this forum, why is one of the first topics that was created people demanding to know whether trans women are welcome?


Because a male transgender was upset a new forum wasn't centering her. That's why. Because you people won't leave us the fuck alone. It's not complicated.
_________________
I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too... can't say that went well. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TinT



Joined: 09 Jul 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:12 pm    Post subject: Re: We have our answer Reply with quote

Jenny wrote:
Because I'm also a nurse, I know what transwomen go through to claim their truth.


So wonderfully touchy feel and so totally nonsense. "Their" truth? There is THE truth, not THEIR truth. And the truth is that a male who decides to transition is still male. That his dysphoria makes his life difficult is unfortunate but does not change reality. Born with a penis, male. Born with a vagina, female. You can argle-bargle about chromosomal abnormalities or developmental defects or intersex characteristics if you feel the need, but realize that those are rarely a factor with the misogynistic "non-binary" TRAs beating women in the street these days.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rogue Kitty



Joined: 11 Aug 2018
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all, I know this topic has been quiet for a couple of weeks, but I'm new to the forum and a couple of things here really grabbed my attention.

I'm not even sure why the question of whether Trans Women were welcome was brought up. I thought that the issue of who was welcome and who was not was addressed pretty well with Tat's post...

Tatsuya Ishida wrote:
My priority here in the opening days of this forum is to establish a community that takes a strong stance against the sexual exploitation industries. And to foster an environment that's friendly to radical feminists and people who support radical feminism.


There's no mention of a genetic requirement, color requirement, class requirement, job requirement, or even gender requirement.

Let me link it again with a couple of highlighted points...

Tatsuya Ishida wrote:
My priority here in the opening days of this forum is to establish a community that takes a strong stance against the sexual exploitation industries. And to foster an environment that's friendly to radical feminists and people who support radical feminism.


I may have been born with a vagina and am damn near rabid in my belief against sexual exploitation, but I'm not egotistical enough to say that only other people born with vaginas can feel the same way I do. I'm also not so stubborn that I'll turn away somone's support just because they have, or were born with testicles. Testosterone doesn't make EVERYONE blind and stupid.

At some point, we women need to stop separating ourselves with labels. Let's just say woman, and leave it at that, instead of fighting about trans vs. cis. This forum is about radical feminism and fighting against female sexual exploitation, let's concentrate on that.

BlueUnicorn wrote:
Back in my own junior high/high school years, somehow our schools did not prevent girls wearing the latest fashions (mini skirts, see-through blouses)


BlueUnicorn wrote:
At the time, we had no choice but to wear mini skirts because that was all that the stores sold for us to wear, and it was an uphill fight to get the schools to allow us girls to wear jeans and t-shirts (which were much less sexy) to classes. Yes, we had to dress according to our gender, and because of the way of fashion in those days, it was hard to fight the sexual objectification that the fashion industry was pushing on us. To some extent, it has not gotten much better since then, but at least some of the fashions are aesthetically pleasing to the eye (those 1960's and 1970's color combinations were an eyesore!).


The problem isn't so much the clothes for females, it's that males are never taught self control. Ninety percent of school dress codes are directed only at female students and the girls are actually told that they're distracting the boys. Boys are taught that if women are wearing anything even slightly revealing, that they're flaunting themselves and therefore deserve anything that the male wishes to do to them. That they're asking for it. To hell with that!! I should be able to parade naked down Main Street if I want to without some asshole thinking that he has the right to ogle, paw me or worse. Unless I actually ask someone to touch me, they have no right to touch me, no matter how much or how little I wear!!

Teaching boys that no means no isn't enough, they have to be taught to wait for an actual invitation to touch in the first place.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BlueUnicorn



Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogue Kitty, you're right that males are never taught self control. It's probably no worse today than it was back in the 1960's/1970's when I had to deal with it (mixed messages to me -- we had to wear the mini-skirts and put up with the "boys will be boys" and yet were also responsible for the reactions and actions of said boys). Maddening experience. But back then, I don't think it was ever an option that boys could be taught to control themselves. Nowadays, it's a consideration that some people are attempting to do, but it's an uphill battle.

The Progressives, on the one hand, claim that they are pro-women and embrace the "#metoo" movement, but on the other hand, they're in favor of importing "radical" Islam* into our countries. (I'm from the US, and one of the main reasons Trump won the presidency in 2016 was because he spoke against this importation.) The Islamic* immigrants to various countries are pushing the "boys will be boys" narrative to the max, and the countries importing them are forcing the girls to cover up instead of insisting that the imported immigrants learn self control and the culture of the country they moved to. I've read a number of articles about sexual harassment and attacks upon women by these imports in Germany, Sweden, France, England, Australia, etc. The USA has had its share of such problems as well. In most cases, the immigrants who are attacking women and girls are either given hand slaps or set free without punishment. If they plead "it's our culture" then it's all right, and they're let go, and it's all the woman's or girl's fault. (In some cases, the girl is well below the age of puberty!) In rare cases, the judge punishes the perpetrator heavily.

* In the case of the USA, part of the problem is also with illegal immigrants from third world countries located south of the border whose boys and men are also culturally trained to be exploitive in such a way as to push pornography into regular life. Raping little girls appears to be a part of the culture, from what I've read, and the incidents of such behavior have been on the rise in America due to the Progressive encouragement of illegals.

I know that's not the porn industry, but it's part of it in a way. It makes the whole thing acceptable to society in general. If our judges won't punish it, if the people attempting to show it to the public as something wrong become criminals (i.e., Tommy Robinson -- https://www.steynonline.com/8675/tommy-this-an-tommy-that-an-tommy-go-away ), then we're fighting an uphill battle that we might not see the end of. The Progressives who claim to be for women's rights sure aren't protecting them from pornography and rape. Very sad. I know a lot of Conservatives are in favor of putting an end to pornography and exploitation of women, but the media has a good percentage of the population believing that Conservatives are in favor of pornography and the sex industry.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lotus Eater



Joined: 10 Aug 2018
Posts: 2
Location: California

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlueUnicorn wrote:

The Progressives, on the one hand, claim that they are pro-women and embrace the "#metoo" movement, but on the other hand, they're in favor of importing "radical" Islam* into our countries. (I'm from the US, and one of the main reasons Trump won the presidency in 2016 was because he spoke against this importation.) The Islamic* immigrants to various countries are pushing the "boys will be boys" narrative to the max, and the countries importing them are forcing the girls to cover up instead of insisting that the imported immigrants learn self control and the culture of the country they moved to. I've read a number of articles about sexual harassment and attacks upon women by these imports in Germany, Sweden, France, England, Australia, etc. The USA has had its share of such problems as well. In most cases, the immigrants who are attacking women and girls are either given hand slaps or set free without punishment. If they plead "it's our culture" then it's all right, and they're let go, and it's all the woman's or girl's fault. (In some cases, the girl is well below the age of puberty!) In rare cases, the judge punishes the perpetrator heavily.

* In the case of the USA, part of the problem is also with illegal immigrants from third world countries located south of the border whose boys and men are also culturally trained to be exploitive in such a way as to push pornography into regular life. Raping little girls appears to be a part of the culture, from what I've read, and the incidents of such behavior have been on the rise in America due to the Progressive encouragement of illegals.

I know that's not the porn industry, but it's part of it in a way. It makes the whole thing acceptable to society in general. If our judges won't punish it, if the people attempting to show it to the public as something wrong become criminals (i.e., Tommy Robinson -- https://www.steynonline.com/8675/tommy-this-an-tommy-that-an-tommy-go-away ), then we're fighting an uphill battle that we might not see the end of. The Progressives who claim to be for women's rights sure aren't protecting them from pornography and rape. Very sad. I know a lot of Conservatives are in favor of putting an end to pornography and exploitation of women, but the media has a good percentage of the population believing that Conservatives are in favor of pornography and the sex industry.


How can you be call yourself a feminist and still spew out these conservative talking points. Raping girls isn't a part of any Latin American culture and many of the undocumented people escaping instability and violence are women. What about them?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rogue Kitty



Joined: 11 Aug 2018
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now we're hijacking the thread, and I'm okay with that.

BlueUnicorn wrote:
But back then, I don't think it was ever an option that boys could be taught to control themselves.


BULLSHIT!!! What the hell are you saying? How can you even think those words, let alone TYPE them and call yourself a radical feminist? It's ALWAYS been an option to teach boys to control themselves!!! If females are taught to control themselves, then males can, and should, damn well be taught to do the same!!

Teaching our daughters, nieces, granddaughters and other female relatives or friends how to defend themselves from unwanted advances and attacks is a great way to start. Another is to make sure that those same women understand to NEVER make false accusations because every false accusation makes it that much harder to prosecute real violations.

Teaching our sons, nephews, grandsons and other male relatives or friends that women are to be respected and protected. Teach them that if their friends hurt women they should turn them in instead of shielding them.

BlueUnicorn wrote:
pushing the "boys will be boys" narrative to the max


The "boys will be boys" narrative as you call it, has been used incessantly for decades as a pitiful excuse for teen and college age males who don't take no for an answer.

BlueUnicorn wrote:
and the countries importing them are forcing the girls to cover up instead of insisting that the imported immigrants learn self control and the culture of the country they moved to.


I don't know of a single real case this happening, as a matter of fact, I've read just the opposite. The imported immigrants are expected to follow the law of the land or be arrested, or deported.

BlueUnicorn wrote:
The USA has had its share of such problems as well. In most cases, the immigrants who are attacking women and girls are either given hand slaps or set free without punishment. If they plead "it's our culture" then it's all right, and they're let go, and it's all the woman's or girl's fault. (In some cases, the girl is well below the age of puberty!) In rare cases, the judge punishes the perpetrator heavily.


Sorry, but "it's our culture" isn't accepted as a defense for violating the law anywhere in the U.S. and I know it because I live in the U.S. too.

BlueUnicorn wrote:
* In the case of the USA, part of the problem is also with illegal immigrants from third world countries located south of the border whose boys and men are also culturally trained to be exploitive in such a way as to push pornography into regular life. Raping little girls appears to be a part of the culture, from what I've read, and the incidents of such behavior have been on the rise in America due to the Progressive encouragement of illegals.


I've done my best to ignore your obvious political affiliation and attempt to spread your political message in this post, but you've gone too far. You're a poor excuse for a human being if you can even think for a minute that it's part of the Latin and South American cultures to rape little girls. I hate to even think about what you mean about "culturally trained to be exploitive in such a way as to push pornography into regular life". As with most of the rest of your post, this is just more racist propaganda being spewed by the Trump Administration and his followers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tarod



Joined: 28 Jul 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2018 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z6IIAB wrote:
Radical feminists- feminists that know women are female human beings. No one here cares about male's delusions on gender. Trans desecrate the ghost of feminism. Rolling Eyes


You are the one picking fights. That is a hell of a sweeping statement to make for rad fems everywhere. You insulted multiple posters here, too. It probably shows up everywhere because it’s a point of contention no one can agree on. See: you identifying as enemies everyone you disagree with.

What does it mater to the goals of radical feminism?
_________________
Lord Dunsany’s 51 Tales’-Death and the Orange.
The Anoying Orange used to be BAD ASS.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BlueUnicorn



Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, so I guess my earlier question/concern has been answered. Politically conservative (not a Trump-eter, I just get my news from other than the DNC propaganda machine, and my news sources aren't always pro-Trump either) radical feminists not welcome here. Glad this was straightened out early. Good luck and Goddess bless you all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RikkiTikkiTavi



Joined: 10 Aug 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BlueUnicorn wrote:
Okay, so I guess my earlier question/concern has been answered. Politically conservative (not a Trump-eter, I just get my news from other than the DNC propaganda machine, and my news sources aren't always pro-Trump either) radical feminists not welcome here. Glad this was straightened out early. Good luck and Goddess bless you all.


I can understand your reaction due to the focused reply and specific responses to what you posted. And yes, some of those responses did attack your political views, but to say that politically conservative radical feminists are not welcome seems a bit of hyperbole.

No, there is probably not going to be a big love fest towards political conservatism on this forum. Not a huge surprise to me. But political conservatism is not only what was debated in the reaction. There were some very valid points in the rebuttals to what you wrote. It would serve you well to consider some of the replies without reacting to the knee jerk reactions to your mention of Trump.

Or, you can just leave and this will be the story about how you tried to be a radical feminist but there is no welcome for a conservative radical feminist so you gave up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Moon'ique



Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Z6IIAB wrote:
Ingun wrote:

But I have to wonder... on this forum, why is one of the first topics that was created people demanding to know whether trans women are welcome?


Because a male transgender was upset a new forum wasn't centering her. That's why. Because you people won't leave us the fuck alone. It's not complicated.


Nah it's because a male transgender got told to fuck off by the creator of the comic.

First post and only post here, every one of ya'll are pieces of shit for the simple fact that you don't consider male transgender individuals female. You can fucking lie about it all you want but you're scum.

But lol you'll have a witty remark after I post this so who the fuck cares right?

Buh-bye.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT - 7 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group