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Porn and Johnbies

 
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morothar



Joined: 10 Dec 2018
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:26 am    Post subject: Porn and Johnbies Reply with quote

Long-time fan of the comics here. Hi all.

So, I'm a human being, and I enjoy sex. And I enjoy pornography. Hear me out. That means written stories and, yes, erotic movies and porn movies.

So the Johnbies 'arc' got me thinking.

Is all porn evil? Or are things more complicated? Is the message that I should oppose any form of pornography?
I'm not asexual and reading and watching these things does arouse me and I'm definitely pro-sex and pro-masturbation.

So, das anti-porn mean being against all forms? Or is it more nuanced? There is feminist porn where the movies are ethically made. There's written stories. As I'm bisexual: How does watching gay (amateur) porn play into all of it?

Am I still a Johnbie, no matter how much I care about the content of pornography and how it was created? Naturally I don't want to be a Johnbie....
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Oldone



Joined: 10 Sep 2018
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking you might just be a troll...

But, just to put it bluntly:

ALL porn is bad. ALL porn exploits, harms, and abuses women. ALL porn is rape. Period. End of story.

You are a Johnbie.
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jdth



Joined: 20 Aug 2018
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear morothar,

Yes, all porn is bad. Let me put it like this: Even if you found a porn-movie, where all people involved did this because they love to do it and everybody got payed well and everything is fairytale-amazing. Then the movie still shows the people in it only as sexual objects. That is porn, there is no depth to the characters. This means in the conotation of our male-dominated society that we mostly define the woman as a sexual object, strengthening the idea that women are that, sexual objects. Even this fairytale porn would therefore harm all women in making the idea that they are sexual object stronger in your head.

Sorry
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morothar



Joined: 10 Dec 2018
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Oldone:
Since I cannot find enough kind words to reply to you and won't resort to a similar tone, I just won't reply to your answer at all.

@jdth:
First: Thank you for your answer and kind tone.

So far I was thinking that these porn movies aren't to hard to find. There are feminist porn awards, and I *think* they have high standards to who and how the movies are made.

Anyway, that is besides your point. So, getting rid of movies, does erotic literature have the same problems? They do describe sexual interactions in detail, so yes? (As you might have guessed, I'm not into porn that treats women badly, so let's not go to that sub-category of sex stories).

So, my only obvious option is to stop reading or watching porn and rely on good old imagination for my, uhm, private times.... Correct?
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October



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 30
Location: Eastern USA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So, my only obvious option is to stop reading or watching porn and rely on good old imagination for my, uhm, private times.... Correct?


I am afraid so, when it comes to porn. Reading erotica is a different thing. I have no objection to that, even if some of what's out there can be pretty... well, to each their own.

Even if the facts of what porn does to its victims, and that you are contributing to the abuse and sale of women and often times children as objects isn't enough to deter you, consider:

Porn addiction is a real thing - a real bad thing. If you think about it, it actually makes perfect sense. It's Pavlovian. If you end up consistently reaching your peak with porn, consider the endorphins and the rush. It has been shown in studies that excess porn-watching can alter a number of your mental processes and re-wire your brain.

It can make it quite a bit more difficult to actually become and stay aroused with a partner. It can shape your attitudes towards rape and violence, and skew your intimacy expectations.

I'm sorry, but like there's no "healthy" suntan, there is no "clean" porn. Sad
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Z6IIAB



Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 244
Location: Rogue

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

October is right on the money, as usual.
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RikkiTikkiTavi



Joined: 10 Aug 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks October. That framed things perfectly.

Morathar's question made me think about this. Is there a difference between porn and erotica. I guess more specifically, images as a photo or video and what is written.

The key difference is that an actual person is involved in images and only imagination is involved in the written format.

I do not think however that erotica should get off lightly. I was exposed to an 'adult novel' as a pre-teen and that horrible work of poorly written smut left a mark on my brain. It damaged the way I thought about things at a time I should have been focused on other stuff.

But I totally get how photos, videos, and prostitution differ. The life of another human is involved in making them and we must protect those people.

I don't want to live in a world where someone is policing my thoughts, so I must allow someone else their thoughts.

I do want to live in a world where porn and prostitution do not exist.
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RikkiTikkiTavi



Joined: 10 Aug 2018
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, not to beat a dead horse but this really has me thinking and I would like to know what other opinions are.

What about animated porn? There is absolutely no 'live' subject, but there certainly versions out there right now that depict every kind of pornography.

And what about digital imagery. They can make a digital image look almost real (absolutely real no doubt soon) and the animation created could depict anything.

As I said before, no persons would be harmed or exploited in making either of these formats, but for the viewer the effect would be about the same.

And then that brings up the subject of artificial prostitutes. The real dolls are already out there and the technology will only advance in the future.

So, my question is about virtual porn and virtual prostitution. While there is no real victim to protect is the harm still a potential? Is the viewer in need of protection?

As I said, I am just wanting to hear from other perspectives to help me fully comprehend my own views. Right now my mind is just bouncing around on this topic.

Thanks in advance.
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jdth



Joined: 20 Aug 2018
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@RikkiTikkiTavi

I think I'll use @october's reasoning here. Animated porn is kinda the same as "feminist porn" as @morothar described. No-one is harmed directly in the making, but it still can re-wire your brain (if you want to put it this way. I mean, everything re-wires your brain all the time, if you are precise, but I think we all know what is meant here, right?). So even if it is not directly harmful to others, it can still be harmful to you and thereby to others.

My thoughts at least.
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McPerson



Joined: 30 Oct 2018
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@RikkiTikkiTavi

I think it's more in line with propaganda and should be countered as such, which means not banning it no matter how we feel about it, instead simply giving people better information to counter it. Most people's first exposure to sex is via porn, which aside from being the travesty we all know and despise, is a horrid place to learn such information and can reasonably serve as a bulwark against better information. I would instead propose people learn more accurate and better information from earlier on so that when they look at the portrayals in porn they would find it less appealing or, hopefully, not appealing at all.

There's more issues with attempting to ban/outlaw victimless porn; it overlaps with art. Where does an artistic nude stop and sexist pinup start? Is that story a vehicle for sex or is the sex a vehicle for the story? It's along the same lines as; is Romeo and Juliet a story we should emulate for the deep passion the leads have for each other or a cautionary tale that blind adoration can only lead to disaster? These are all difficult and nearly impossible questions to answer uniformly and in a systematic manor, so I'd rather side with art than a “just to be safe” argument.

As for artificial prostitution, I'm a little more hesitant towards; there's a lot of good and bad to be done there. In the plus categories it enables people to have victimless sexual outlet aside from “rubbing one out” as they say, it could be used for a learning tool for a lot of areas, and it would enable a lot of people of both genders to learn their bodies and what they enjoy in a safe environment. On the down side it would enable predators to express themselves to perhaps build up the courage to act, it would also likely end up building up an expectation of partners that they literally can't uphold like many dildos and vibrators have done, and it would likely encourage more people to separate from society than already do which given the people that do that already I'm not sure is the worst thing in the world. On the whole I think it'd be a good thing; it fills a “need” and makes it so there is no one getting hurt. It also would likely demolish the underground prostitution rings; why go through the effort and risk of getting living person who is “close enough” to what you want when you can just order exactly what you want through the mail. Humans, if nothing else, will almost always go for the lazy option whenever possible.

I wholly agree things should be done about live action porn and even more so prostitution, but I don't think barring digital, written, and artificial media is going to help in reducing the number of overall victims of the patriarchy. I guess the way I see it is like vaping; some people get hooked on it, others look to use it ween themselves off worse, and it's something a lot of people want them to quit, but it's still nowhere near as bad as the real thing.
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