October 11, 2020: Audit 48

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Russly
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October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by Russly » Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:11 pm

https://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2020-10-11

Welp looks like the sin part of Sinfest is in full swing if Seymour's the victim of the Woke Church?

-Russly

jerichammond
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by jerichammond » Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:22 am

I was in the "christian" church in the 70's, they acted like this even then. The clubs were not as obvious.

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Z6IIAB
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by Z6IIAB » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:07 pm

Russly wrote:
Sun Oct 11, 2020 2:11 pm
https://www.sinfest.net/view.php?date=2020-10-11

Welp looks like the sin part of Sinfest is in full swing if Seymour's the victim of the Woke Church?

-Russly
what do you mean? I didn't get it.
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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Z6IIAB
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by Z6IIAB » Mon Oct 12, 2020 2:09 pm

jerichammond wrote:
Mon Oct 12, 2020 11:22 am
I was in the "christian" church in the 70's, they acted like this even then. The clubs were not as obvious.
fundies used to coerce people to convert using brute force in the 70s? for real? wtf, how come I never heard of that (tbf, I was raised as an atheist so my contact with religion is minimal)
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

Russly
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by Russly » Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:36 pm

Yeah I can see it, whether it's political parties, religion, academia, and so on, there can be members who are simply out for their own gain.

-Russly

jerichammond
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by jerichammond » Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:19 am

No, the fundies, and other flavors, did not use coercion, they offered peace, love, community and freedom of worship our way; which was what all us flower children were looking for from the 60's. The concept was great, but just like in the 60's communes, ego and greed always erupted, usually in the staff and clergy. You could tell how the churches were going by how many fancy cars, houses and jets the pastor and staff had.

Russly
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by Russly » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:14 pm

I've heard the collapse of the sixties' 'free' love era was pretty much inevitable because it was predicated on naturally "demonic forces." They were playing with fire.

-Russly

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Z6IIAB
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by Z6IIAB » Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:01 pm

jerichammond wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:19 am
No, the fundies, and other flavors, did not use coercion, they offered peace, love, community and freedom of worship our way; which was what all us flower children were looking for from the 60's. The concept was great, but just like in the 60's communes, ego and greed always erupted, usually in the staff and clergy. You could tell how the churches were going by how many fancy cars, houses and jets the pastor and staff had.
so... like a cult?
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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RikkiTikkiTavi
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by RikkiTikkiTavi » Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:55 am

Z6IIAB wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:01 pm
jerichammond wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:19 am
No, the fundies, and other flavors, did not use coercion, they offered peace, love, community and freedom of worship our way; which was what all us flower children were looking for from the 60's. The concept was great, but just like in the 60's communes, ego and greed always erupted, usually in the staff and clergy. You could tell how the churches were going by how many fancy cars, houses and jets the pastor and staff had.
so... like a cult?
In my experience with a 'cult' like aspect of religion (back in the late 70s, early 80s) they were not using strong arm tactics. It was more about the offer of inclusion to a special club. Like most clubs, they had their own language - terms the club members used but were opaque to non-members. They had their special get together parties/worship services. They also had enrollment 'drives'.

I got caught up when I attended a youth two day event. They absolutely used mind control tactics such as control of food (just rice so we would understand the 'hunger for the lord'), sleep deprivation (we went to bed way late and they woke us up way early), and lots of peer pressure (we had to enact a group skit which was then evaluated by the whole group - my group got a bad review because we made ours funny... and there 'ain't nothin' funny about the love of our lord'). We also were surprised on the last day by a group of our friends from the church who sang to us and hugged us.

I remember feeling confused and loved during this event. I was never afraid and yes the tactic worked because I joined the junior version of the special worship club. This was a mainstream Episcopal church with a very non mainstream holy roller, speaking in tongues, baptized by the spirit - secret club. I was very much a 'Super-Christian' on my way to a very holy roller life - but then I went away to college and the lack of constant contact with the other rollers helped me come to my senses - crash and burn into near atheism.

It was just something that happened to me and took about a year of my life and got me married at a very early age. Then the pendulum swung the other way which then led to about 5 years of reformatting which included a divorce and a total swing into a very Non-Christian debauched life. Then I swung back to the middle. So I guess I have a lot of perspective on how people can fairly easily get caught up in cults or 'group think' kind of situations - but no permanent scars. Plus I have a very well honed sense of dark humor.

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Z6IIAB
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by Z6IIAB » Wed Oct 14, 2020 4:13 pm

RikkiTikkiTavi wrote:
Wed Oct 14, 2020 5:55 am
Z6IIAB wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:01 pm
jerichammond wrote:
Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:19 am
No, the fundies, and other flavors, did not use coercion, they offered peace, love, community and freedom of worship our way; which was what all us flower children were looking for from the 60's. The concept was great, but just like in the 60's communes, ego and greed always erupted, usually in the staff and clergy. You could tell how the churches were going by how many fancy cars, houses and jets the pastor and staff had.
so... like a cult?
In my experience with a 'cult' like aspect of religion (back in the late 70s, early 80s) they were not using strong arm tactics. It was more about the offer of inclusion to a special club. Like most clubs, they had their own language - terms the club members used but were opaque to non-members. They had their special get together parties/worship services. They also had enrollment 'drives'.

I got caught up when I attended a youth two day event. They absolutely used mind control tactics such as control of food (just rice so we would understand the 'hunger for the lord'), sleep deprivation (we went to bed way late and they woke us up way early), and lots of peer pressure (we had to enact a group skit which was then evaluated by the whole group - my group got a bad review because we made ours funny... and there 'ain't nothin' funny about the love of our lord'). We also were surprised on the last day by a group of our friends from the church who sang to us and hugged us.

I remember feeling confused and loved during this event. I was never afraid and yes the tactic worked because I joined the junior version of the special worship club. This was a mainstream Episcopal church with a very non mainstream holy roller, speaking in tongues, baptized by the spirit - secret club. I was very much a 'Super-Christian' on my way to a very holy roller life - but then I went away to college and the lack of constant contact with the other rollers helped me come to my senses - crash and burn into near atheism.

It was just something that happened to me and took about a year of my life and got me married at a very early age. Then the pendulum swung the other way which then led to about 5 years of reformatting which included a divorce and a total swing into a very Non-Christian debauched life. Then I swung back to the middle. So I guess I have a lot of perspective on how people can fairly easily get caught up in cults or 'group think' kind of situations - but no permanent scars. Plus I have a very well honed sense of dark humor.
that sounds scary
Call me Celina. I've been a fan since 2007, and tried to enjoy the old forum since then too. Now that we have a forum for radfems/people who actually enjoy the comic! Hell yes! I'll call up all my buddies here!! Armageddon is coming.

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RikkiTikkiTavi
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by RikkiTikkiTavi » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:43 am

Scary only in retrospect. And that's the thing that I understand the most about these things. While you are in the thrall of it all, it is not scary in fact you feel excited and it seems everything is so crystal clear and the answer is so very obvious.

When I see people in videos and on the news doing all sorts of 'righteous riotus' things or being hideous to another person just because that person is a color, or is wearing a hat, or is holding a sign - I know they are in the thrall of 'cult'.

Real life doesn't have certainty. Real life is full of questions and things are not very clear. You don't make the 'statement' actions when your mind is involved in real life.

A normal person can do horrible and despicable things when their mind is caught up in 'cult think'. Horrible and despicable things can happen to people who are caught up in a 'cult think' environment.

When I look back on that time in my life, it is scary to imagine all the things that could have happened. I was a sitting duck for all sorts of bad that is possible in those church cult kind of situations. I am lucky that what happened to me was relatively normal. Even so, having to come out of a 'cult certainty' mindset is very unpleasant. Much like a drug withdrawal.

Russly
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by Russly » Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:45 pm

Holy crap more responses! Hahaha on the dark humor line! Yes I've heard about places such as those.... And worse. Some story about sorority initiations where you stay tied to a chair in a basement for two weeks with a single song blasting the entire time. Of course, the world knows how to keep surprising us, huh?

Makes me think of Cruz publicly declaring he follows God first and his country second. Or even the debates with that question about denouncing white supremacy. People getting to in their own programming, until you can't shake them anymore and they become "people of the lie."

Cult think... the Milgram Experiment of course is the go to. Also intermittent reinforcement, Rat Park and all that. Indeed, we may be here talking about this, but many casualties occur, there are those of us not so fortunate.

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RikkiTikkiTavi
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by RikkiTikkiTavi » Fri Oct 16, 2020 5:17 am

In regards to cult behavior it is important to remember that the knife cuts both ways. It is easy to call something a 'cult' when we see a group of people behaving in a way we disapprove. It is harder to remember that any group of people that share the same core values may exhibit cultish behaviors. Any group of people whose actions move toward an extreme are likely in the thrall of a cult mind set.

Are you happy to belong to (fill in the blank) group? Does it make you feel proud/smug/evolved/better than 'x' group (choose one or more)? Do you let others know you belong to (fill in blank) group? Careful. You might just be flowing toward cultish behavior and/or group think. No group is excluded and this includes religion, politics, car clubs and the iris society.

Group think -reacting as a unit in a group instead of following our personal ethics - is a horrible potential side effect. People become emotionally involved and the higher the emotions the more likely they can be lead to strong arm tactics or violent acts. A person or persons who understand group behaviors can influence the outcomes just by knowing where to put the 'crowbar'.

No matter what personal political viewpoints we might have, watching what is happening in America right now is observing cultish behavior, group think, and hidden influencers on all sides skillfully pushing towards desired outcomes.

At the start of all the Covid crap I said that I was not as afraid of the virus as I was of people - because people who are afraid can be more easily influenced and display the worst of our human capacities. I am not at all happy to have my words ring true.

I really want humans to be better than we are. I see daily reminders that we are not too far removed from our animalistic origins.

Dear 2021 - please be a better year.

Russly
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Re: October 11, 2020: Audit 48

Post by Russly » Fri Oct 16, 2020 1:11 pm

Yes the overlap between cults and groups exhibiting such behavior can be wide.... Group think being one such example. And such a crowbar can be easy to place when you know what to do....

It's almost a matter of how far you delve into it. Like at what point do you put away the phone, at least before too much brainwashing sets in. Yeah sociologically speaking the true danger is perhaps the people.

-Russly

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