welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

3/27/07 - No
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17034
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, it makes it harder to get a get-back-on-your-feet job. sure, you could hang out at home depot and offer to do day labor, but that's not exactly a steady job - the sort of thing you need if you are going to rent an apartment. (also the sort of thing that probably won't work if you are a woman)
_________________
aka: neverscared!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 2433

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MellowFish wrote:
that point has been made by yourself and others before. however, I do this mostly out of an attempt to not have the quote "blind faith" that many people are disgusted with. I try to think about what I am believing and what it means in my daily life, and this is what I have come up with. So ridicule away, but I am not here to please you, just to throw out my two cents like everyone else on this forum.

You are misunderstanding me. I am not disgusted by blind faith. If you want to set Bible inerrancy up as the core of your life and beliefs, that is fine by me.

But you are not exhibiting blind faith.

When you see the Bible describe the Creation account poetically, you decide it means evolution is false, contrary to all physical evidence. That could be blind faith.

When you find fewer than half a dozen verses which might be saying that homosexuality is sinful, you decide you must control these peoples' lives by making a Constitutional amendment to deny them marriage. That could be blind faith.

When I point out that John 3:16 doesn't add any restrictions to being a Christian other than having faith, you tell me it looks like it really does say that, but you're pretty sure there are other restrictions, too. That cannot be blind faith, because you are straightforwardly disagreeing what the Bible says, because you want your club to be more exclusive.

When I tell you the Bible tells you to love and everyone, which it does time and time again, and you tell me you've decided you're only going to love only those people where your help can be effective, you are again disagreeing with the Bible. That is not blind faith! You are imposing your own rules for who to love over the criteria (no criteria) the Bible uses.

You do not set the Bible up as the core of your life and beliefs. You are not blindly faithful. Instead, you have decided on certain opinions you will have regardless of what the Bible says, and then you do your best to twist the Bible into saying what you want it to say.
_________________
"To love deeply in one direction makes us more loving in all others."
- Anne-Sophie Swetchine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bun bun
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

<3
Back to top
Vendavalez



Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is exactly because of this kind of discussions that I don't say I am a christian anymore.
_________________
All things repeat themselves in the same disorder (that repeated is in itself an order, the Order.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MellowFish



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 755
Location: The Train to Gloryland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sojobo wrote:
When you see the Bible describe the Creation account poetically, you decide it means evolution is false, contrary to all physical evidence. That could be blind faith.

where is it written that becuase something is poetic means it is not also literal?
Quote:
When you find fewer than half a dozen verses which might be saying that homosexuality is sinful, you decide you must control these peoples' lives by making a Constitutional amendment to deny them marriage. That could be blind faith.

Because homosexuality is described so strongly as unnatural, I see it as being as harmful to society as adultery. Therefore I support anti gay marriage laws as much as I do anti polygamy laws. Its just those are already on the books and anti gay marriage laws aren't. yet.
Quote:
When I point out that John 3:16 doesn't add any restrictions to being a Christian other than having faith, you tell me it looks like it really does say that, but you're pretty sure there are other restrictions, too. That cannot be blind faith, because you are straightforwardly disagreeing what the Bible says, because you want your club to be more exclusive.

What does it mean to believe in Jesus Christ? All I am doing is restaing what later writers said: belief is the result of actions and not merely thought. If people only accept the teachings of jesus as fact and disagree with the rest of the bible, i will say that's pretty stupid, but I wouldnt deny their faith. If I have said otherwise in the past, then I was wrong, and thanks for calling me on it.
Quote:
When I tell you the Bible tells you to love and everyone, which it does time and time again, and you tell me you've decided you're only going to love only those people where your help can be effective, you are again disagreeing with the Bible. That is not blind faith! You are imposing your own rules for who to love over the criteria (no criteria) the Bible uses.

When have I said I din't care about the drug addict/alcoholic panhandlers who I wont give money to? Its just that giving them money would not help them, so why would I do it? If I wanted to help them then I would try to get them into a rehab program and pay their way for the program. Since I dont have the funds to do that, I volunteer at shelters.
Quote:
You do not set the Bible up as the core of your life and beliefs. You are not blindly faithful. Instead, you have decided on certain opinions you will have regardless of what the Bible says, and then you do your best to twist the Bible into saying what you want it to say.

You missed the point of my previous post. I am trying not to be blindly faithful. And you can assert that point of view all you want, but my opinions were formed after I read the bible, not before. What you are describing is called prooftexting by theologions and is generally looked down on.
_________________
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. -- Frederick Douglass
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
YenTheFirst



Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 2620
Location: Slightly less than crazy.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mellowfish wrote:
Therefore I support anti gay marriage laws as much as I do anti polygamy laws.

how many wives did Isreal have?
_________________
Dad said "No! You will BE KILL BY DEMONS"


Last edited by YenTheFirst on Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MellowFish



Joined: 30 Sep 2006
Posts: 755
Location: The Train to Gloryland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abraham was a liar and a coward and he was called one of god most faithful servants.
david was an adulterer and a murderer and he was called a man after god heart.

just becuase people *do* things in the bible, it does not make them right.

Oh and if you want to look at wives, look to solomon. 700 wives and 300 concubines.
_________________
Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. -- Frederick Douglass
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
bun bun
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MellowFish wrote:
abraham was a liar and a coward and he was called one of god most faithful servants.
david was an adulterer and a murderer and he was called a man after god heart.

just becuase people *do* things in the bible, it does not make them right.

Oh and if you want to look at wives, look to solomon. 700 wives and 300 concubines.

Right. Exactly. This is why the Bible's morals are a crock of shit.
Back to top
Keign



Joined: 22 Nov 2006
Posts: 2073
Location: The Blue Nowhere

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MellowFish wrote:
abraham was a liar and a coward and he was called one of god most faithful servants.
david was an adulterer and a murderer and he was called a man after god heart.

just becuase people *do* things in the bible, it does not make them right.

Oh and if you want to look at wives, look to solomon. 700 wives and 300 concubines.

God got mad at two people when they decided to put on clothes, so he kicked them out of his yard to suffer in the desert. Later he flooded the planet killing everyone but one guy and his family because he was tired of them not listening to him, he abandoned his pacifist son on a cross bearing the weight of all mankind's badness, he killed a whole lot of Egyptians in the red sea, after plaguing them with a lot of other bad shit.
He did tons of other things too, but I don't feel like making a long list.

Just because people do things in the Bible, it does not make them right.

Oh, and I think he was mentioning Israel because his having multiple wives because it was something God never bitched about. God got pissed at Solomon's overindulgence.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
YenTheFirst



Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 2620
Location: Slightly less than crazy.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My post was about Jacobb & sons.

David was punished for the murdering.

God never complained (in the bible) about the multiple wives of Isreal.
in fact, up until the end he was still promising that he would become "a great nation" and "more descendants than could be counted"
_________________
Dad said "No! You will BE KILL BY DEMONS"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 2433

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 8:23 am    Post subject: A for Effort Reply with quote

MellowFish:

[prelude]
A wholehearted follower of Jesus will be regarded as insane by most people. The behaviours the New Testament calls you to do not make sense unless you can base them on rock-solid faith in Jesus and the values he describes.

For example, when Jesus sends out the Twelve to various towns to preach and heal, he tells them not to take any money or food or changes of clothing, but to instead have faith that they will be provided for. This is not pragmatic. This is actually pretty insane... unless you are quite certain God's got your back.

Another example is Jesus' advice to the rich young man. He's a great guy - he takes care of people, he gives, he shares good fortune pretty freely, but he's told to give it all away and instead follow Jesus around. This is not pragmatic. This is actually pretty insane... unless you quite firmly accept that money has no value in the next life.

Jesus tells you not to resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, you are supposed to forgive him and turn the other to him so he can strike it, too. If someone wants your tunic, you give them your cloak as well. This is not pragmatic. This is actually pretty insane... unless you really do love your enemies.

Jesus doesn't tell you to be careful. He doesn't tell you to be safe. He doesn't tell you to worry about how effective your help will be. He tells you to help everyone, and God will worry about the taking care, and the safety, and the efficacy.
[/prelude]


The list in my last post was a set of positions that are inconsistant with one another. You have to read the Bible with different mindsets in order to honestly arrive at the different positions.

Specifically, the Young Earth thing is pure blind faith. There is no reasoning, no questioning, no doubts - the position is based on nothing. This is why you can have no answer other than "poetic doesn't mean it's not literal." There just isn't any positive support behind it. I will say this as clear as I can: I was not criticizing this position.

The last one in my list, involving the current discussion, is a position that arises from the opposite kind of mindset. Being careful in how you donate your time and money is pragmatic, it is logical - the vast majority of the people on this bulletin board, Christian and not, will agree with you on this issue. Obviously, I was not criticizing this position either.

I am criticizing the inconsistant approach you take in building your version of Christianity.

I'll repeat:

It is not problematic for me that you are a Creationist. It is (obviously) not problematic for me that you are careful in your charity. It is problematic for me that you can't see the inconsistancy in holding both of these positions.

If you are going to allow reason and logic to moderate Jesus' demand that you freely help everyone, you have to also allow reason and logic to assist in your reading of Genesis 1. Alternately, if you are going to cling to your Creationism against all reasoning, you really don't get to cling to controlling how you help people - your life better look like Mother Teresa's.


Now, obviously, when I ended my last post by accusing you of twisting the Bible to fit your opinions, that was unfair. It's much more likely that the whole mess of opinions was transferred to you as a package. Someone many steps back in your church's "family tree" didn't understand biology, and liked hating on fags, and didn't like to give away his money, so when he taught people the Bible, he taught Genesis 1 literally, and focused on the half dozen lines that pick on homosexuality, and replaced what the Bible says about helping people with his own plan that didn't involve inconveniencing him so much.

And with that in mind, I'm actually pretty pleased, and even rather impressed, that you're working on your beliefs. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have displayed that hint of distaste for "blind faith" when you first arrived here, and while your side of the peanut butter evolution conversation may still have been a little goofy, it was far superior to your original stance of "not gonna read it, because I know I'll disagree."
_________________
"To love deeply in one direction makes us more loving in all others."
- Anne-Sophie Swetchine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 2565
Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I want to have a dozen of Sojobo's babies now! <3
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 2433

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 9:40 am    Post subject: IMMACULATELY! Reply with quote

*impregnates kame a dozen times*
_________________
"To love deeply in one direction makes us more loving in all others."
- Anne-Sophie Swetchine
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Secret



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 5429

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:37 pm    Post subject: No, not the multiple immaculate homosexual conceptions Reply with quote

*Applauds*
_________________
rm wrote:
the grail is patient.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
reasonablymad



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 6783

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*hands out cigars*
_________________
...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 6 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group