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5/7/07 - Protest
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FFKonoko



Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
omnipotence has other fun paradoxes, like, "can God create a stone so heavy even He could not lift it?"

I don't think thats actually a paradox. I figure that although a immaterial such as gods omnipotence can be infinite, a construct like a rock which has dimensions and thus by definition must have a finite end, regardless of how large it is, God can still surpass it. Its a technicality, but still, it works to resolve the paradox.
That or you just give a straight No, because even if both were infinite, then since his power is also infinite the thing created comes before his attempt to lift it and thus...well, you get the idea.

As for the other stuff...if god is omnipotent, then could he not choose to forget, or simply not recall? Or, could it not be compared to watching a rerun...even if you know it, it can still be watched.
That, or free will is the immaterial version of that rock. While the rock had to have dimensions, free will does not and thus could be the one thing that god made that he cannot entirely predict, made purely because he does not want to. I could back this up with stuff from the bible regarding the whole 'made in his image' thing and the reasoning for us being made over angels, why the angels were not his greatest creation and so forth...
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MsFrisby



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3966
Location: a quiet little corner of crazy

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FFKonoko wrote:


As for the other stuff...if god is omnipotent, then could he not choose to forget, or simply not recall?


This! This explains everything! God created everything then ERASED HIS OWN MEMORY.
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10878
Location: hiding the decline.

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bet he developed something secret and got a lot of money for it but he had to erase his memory!

And now he's chasing clues he left for himself to prevent something or somesuch.

I bet we are the clues!
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YenTheFirst



Joined: 18 Feb 2007
Posts: 2620
Location: Slightly less than crazy.

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FFKonoko wrote:
Quote:
omnipotence has other fun paradoxes, like, "can God create a stone so heavy even He could not lift it?"

I don't think thats actually a paradox. I figure that although a immaterial such as gods omnipotence can be infinite, a construct like a rock which has dimensions and thus by definition must have a finite end, regardless of how large it is, God can still surpass it. Its a technicality, but still, it works to resolve the paradox.
That or you just give a straight No, because even if both were infinite, then since his power is also infinite the thing created comes before his attempt to lift it and thus...well, you get the idea.

As for the other stuff...if god is omnipotent, then could he not choose to forget, or simply not recall? Or, could it not be compared to watching a rerun...even if you know it, it can still be watched.
That, or free will is the immaterial version of that rock. While the rock had to have dimensions, free will does not and thus could be the one thing that god made that he cannot entirely predict, made purely because he does not want to. I could back this up with stuff from the bible regarding the whole 'made in his image' thing and the reasoning for us being made over angels, why the angels were not his greatest creation and so forth...


your explanation works fine. I was just using the so-called paradox to demonstrate that even if you propose an omnipotent being, there would still be logically impossible actions which that being could not perform.

whether deterministically predicting human behavior, or preventing evil without affecting free will are logically impossible, even for an all-powerful being, I do not know.
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reasonablymad



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 6783

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
I bet he developed something secret and got a lot of money for it but he had to erase his memory!

And now he's chasing clues he left for himself to prevent something or somesuch.

I bet we are the clues!


yeah! and there's a clone version of god running around trying to kill the real god but no one knows which is which!
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17207
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so what does that make the devil - the comic cop trying to get the cloned god to reveal himself?
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memefarmer



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't any animal of sufficient complexity have free will? ...It's not just a Human phenomenon.

Another side to the "malevolent creator" argument is the fact that viruses, parasites, predation and all the other interesting obscenities of nature exist.

If you're an omnipotent god and could presumably choose to represent life in any way imaginable it would seem pretty twisted to choose to do so in the particular way we observe.

Evolution, on the other hand, perfectly explains the forms life has taken.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

memefarmer wrote:
Doesn't any animal of sufficient complexity have free will?


well, my cats certainly do. lord knows they pay no attention to _my_ will.
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Major Tom



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reasonablymad wrote:
yeah! and there's a clone version of god running around trying to kill the real god but no one knows which is which!


...sounds familiar...

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memefarmer



Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
memefarmer wrote:
Doesn't any animal of sufficient complexity have free will?


well, my cats certainly do. lord knows they pay no attention to _my_ will.

Exactly! Smile
My cats came to mind as well.
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reasonablymad



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 6783

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Major Tom wrote:
reasonablymad wrote:
yeah! and there's a clone version of god running around trying to kill the real god but no one knows which is which!


...sounds familiar...



hehe...

"no. you. can't have. my pain. I need my. pain. it's what. makes. me, me."
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