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Michael



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10698

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MsFris?

How did you decide e-mail etc would be banned by this, one of the guidelines is:

Quote:
(iii) permits registered users to create an online journal and share such a journal with other users;


and besides, don't american libraries restrict acces to the adult part of the library (i.e. anything but the childrens sectrion) to over 16's or something?
Something similar could easily be done with the net no?
Well, not 'easily' at all really, but if a whole country is involved I think you might have a chance at making a good site-blocking list[/quote]
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Major Tom



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 7562

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amenamen.

and that's all on top of the fact that his argument basically misappropriates the legislation at hand, which is (at least, on its face) intended to instill some feeling if not actual measure of protection for juveniles that are at risk of online predation, however poor the intended execution may be at achieving that supposed goal.
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BoySetsFire



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 374
Location: Rex Kwan Doe enthusiast

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stay home and do your "educational research" there cletus.

the purpose of a library is NOT only for strict education. they exist as a repository for all the works of man, educational, entertainment or otherwise and to provide open access to all of those works to all people.

and for another thing, i'd rather see kids at the library than out fucking around in town or doing dipshit things like tagging or drinking or getting stoned out of their gourds.
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HamletSr



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 241
Location: The Illustrated Guide to Diagnostic Tests

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cletusowns wrote:
HamletSr wrote:

the rich kids can do what they want, obviously, but i wont stand for it on the public dime!
Also, I am a MASSIVE FUCKING DUMBASS


Wow be more of a dirty douchenozzle. I am fine for banning myspace on public school computers as well. If people want to read my space they can do it 1) on their own computers 2) Not in a educational area.

Also, be more jealous of people with a little money. Last time I checked owning a computer doesn't signify you as rich. Just not welfare poor.

Oh and why don't you cry about it more? If you say you're posting from the library I am going to laugh when you can't post here anymore. That would be comedy gold. Oh yeah and did you like my little quote rape?


:yawn:

nice triple-post there cletus. also, nobody agrees with you and your sig image is large and stupid.
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nathan



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6282

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cletusowns wrote:
If people want entertainment they can go play on the monkey bars at the park.


The monkey bars are for public exercise and physical improvement, not goofing off while other people wait. At least, that's how I've always seen it. A simple swingset is a reasonably low-cost item for most Americans. I hardly think it's asking too much for people to do those sorts of things at home, rather than hog public facilities.

I do appreciate your general sentiment, though. I just think it was slightly misapplied here.
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trustedfaith



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3366
Location: My own little world...

PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathan wrote:
cletusowns wrote:
If people want entertainment they can go play on the monkey bars at the park.


The monkey bars are for public exercise and physical improvement, not goofing off while other people wait. At least, that's how I've always seen it. A simple swingset is a reasonably low-cost item for most Americans. I hardly think it's asking too much for people to do those sorts of things at home, rather than hog public facilities.

I do appreciate your general sentiment, though. I just think it was slightly misapplied here.


Really? Cause every time I ever remember being on the monkey bars -- I wasn't thinking about public exercise and physical improvement. I was thinking I was a monkey climbing bars. But then again I was seven. Might be the reason why. Wink
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:

and besides, don't american libraries restrict acces to the adult part of the library (i.e. anything but the childrens sectrion) to over 16's or something?
Something similar could easily be done with the net no?


no public library i've ever been in has ever restricted anyone's access anywhere (unless they had special collections, or the like). any non-fiction book (like history, biographies, science books, etc.) should be open to everyone (many students use them for research) - and people read at different levels. i was reading adult -level fiction long before i reached 16.

attempts have been made to filter the internet - but as i've heard it, they tend to have lots of problems. one that raised a big fuss a few years ago was that words like 'breast' were blocked - so if you wanted to do searches for breast cancer or breast feeding, you couldn't do them from a public library.

children need to learn how to deal with the outside world. they are taught not to talk to strangers in real life - they should learn similar skills in dealing with strangers they meet online. you can get in just as much trouble with strangers on your home computer, if you haven't learned to be wary, and your parents aren't paying attention.
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Yorick



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About five years ago I was constantly using library computers for printing and for internet, because I lacked both at home. The Internet computer setup at the time for the local library had content filters on all the computers save one, and you had to have proof of age to use the unrestricted computer (which was also around a corner). The Saratoga Library had all their internet computers in a separate room, with cubicle walls and filter screens, and I don't recall there being any content filters.
I don't know what it's like anymore locally, because I have the Internet at home and don't use the interent at the library, but it's still a specail area. but Saratoga has them all out on the main floor, so anyone at all can see what you're doing.
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Deadmilkman



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:58 pm    Post subject: How stupid is this? Reply with quote

Pretty friggin stupid.

Technologically, it WILL force segrigating the computers into two groups:

Those that can access such sites in a physically secured area, and those that cannot. (*Any other idea will be rubbish as it will be next to impossible to grant a single person access and make sure the patron doesn't leave that station unattended)
(* in our case that would be over 200 computers covering over 5 lab areas)

Those that are limited will quite frankly have to be resticted from allmost the entire internet.
(*to avoid someone using a website to proxy through the firewall, updating the "disallowed" list would be way to much of a pain for compliance.)

bonus points:
We would also have to downgrade our online catalog. We allow users to publish profiles with reading lists/links to our online databases.


All this because a handful of parents can't be bothered to be parents to their teenage girls.
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azander



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 7
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the internet is a series of tubes!
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Michael



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10698

PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
no public library i've ever been in has ever restricted anyone's access anywhere (unless they had special collections, or the like). any non-fiction book (like history, biographies, science books, etc.) should be open to everyone (many students use them for research) - and people read at different levels. i was reading adult -level fiction long before i reached 16.

attempts have been made to filter the internet - but as i've heard it, they tend to have lots of problems. one that raised a big fuss a few years ago was that words like 'breast' were blocked - so if you wanted to do searches for breast cancer or breast feeding, you couldn't do them from a public library.

children need to learn how to deal with the outside world. they are taught not to talk to strangers in real life - they should learn similar skills in dealing with strangers they meet online. you can get in just as much trouble with strangers on your home computer, if you haven't learned to be wary, and your parents aren't paying attention.


Over here you can't borrow adult fiction on a children's library card (up to 14 or 16 or something), although access isn't restricted and you can read in the library if you want to. I didn't approve of the system at the time but got around it by having my mom take out the books for me. I gather from 'mathilda' that brittish libraries have something similar, or at least a librarian to frown at you. I don't really know what to think of it now.
I could understand libraries restricting access (even if only officially) or trying to create a 'safe' kiddies section to avoid responsibility/angry parents but well... it's a little easy for me to say this 'cause my parents always let me read everything.

Same thing with the net. I wouldn't blame the libraries if they tried to restrict access somehow, or made sure the kids had parental consent. Personally I'd just go for a huge block-list. It wouldn't stop determined kids from accessing playboy.com through an unblocked proxy but it could stop kids stumbling on it by mistake. Sites with a decidedly scientific/informational nature could go wholy unblocked, so you could still look up 'fisting' in wikipedia if you wanted.

Anyway, all of this is a little off topic since it only accounts for the information-providing side of the internet and doesn't touch on the communication aspect. Here again it might be reasonable for the providers of the internet access to ask for adult consent. I agree with you completely that parents should teach their children how to deal with these things but they might need a little help with new technologies no?
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MsFrisby



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3966
Location: a quiet little corner of crazy

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Internet Watch List: 9 little problems that could soon concern us
Written by Roberto Preatoni (SyS64738)
Friday, 15 September 2006

The Center for Democracy and Technology , a web site whose slogan is “Working for democratic values in the digital age” recently draw out a Watch List summarizing nine bills threatening Internet users’ privacy, that are up to be rushed into laws by U.S. Government before the midterm elections, and that could represent the beginning of larger measures potentially affecting people cyber freedom.

The "Internet Watch List," contains legislative efforts that, according to CDT Executive Director Leslie Harris , should not allowed to be put to use. She gets on saying that "Taken together, these measures threaten to undermine our First and Fourth Amendment rights; weaken our privacy; hobble technological innovation; and change the fundamental nature of the Internet for the worse. If even one of these misguided legislative gambits succeeds we will all be the worse for it."

Two new laws on Government snooping in citizens’ lives, Congressional efforts to impose mandatory labelling requirements on Web site operators; a bill that would require schools and libraries to block interactive Internet content; an attempt to compel Internet providers to retain massive amounts of customer data for use by law enforcement; and several other bills and planned measures that threaten privacy and civil liberties.....Are we facing a wave of cyber-Protectionism?

Let’s consider the List step by step.
1) The first bill goes after the proposal by Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) and Rep. Heather Wilson (R-N.M.) for legitimizing the administration's warrantless surveillance programs without judicial review. Intelligence agencies will gain much more power and they won’t be checked by authorities on their activities.

The bill will allow the National Security Agency to create a database including personal information of each US citizen, which the government could data mine at will, outside any judicial or congressional oversight, as originally conceived by the Total Information Awareness program .

2) CDT then reports that Congress is evaluating three bills under which "Web site operators could be imprisoned for failing to attach government-sanctioned "sexually explicit" labels to a broad range of online content. As written, the provisions would require labeling of a great deal of constitutionally protected Internet content, including Web pages that depict no nudity or sexual acts and those that already carry an array of voluntary ratings and content labels. The bills containing the mandatory labeling language include both the Senate telecommunications bill and the Senate Commerce-State-Justice Appropriations package".
3) Another proposal would allow the department of Justice to force US ISPs to collect data about their users’ Internet usage, in order to have a help during investigations about children exploitation and national security. Actually, no bill has been presented yet, but several lawmakers have expressed their second to such a motion.

4) The Deleting Online Predators Act of 2006 (DOPA, H.R. 5319), would force schools and libraries that receive federal "e-rate" funding to block virtually all interactivity on their Internet-enabled computers. Chat rooms and social networking sites would be off limits to the young people who rely on schools and libraries for their Internet access. This measure wil increase differences between those children and teens that can count on a home computer and those who cannot.

5) Another proposal would widen already existing controls on telecommunications services by requiring Internet companies to design their services and applications in a way that would facilitate wiretapping. “If such a measure were enacted,” the CDT review states, ”it would allow unprecedented government intervention into the design of the Internet, undermining Americans' privacy and security, threatening technological innovation, and imposing significant, even prohibitive, costs on start-ups and new services.”

6) A further bill would jeopardize Internet neutrality. The Net has always allowed any user to send and receive content to and from any other user on a non-discriminatory basis .
Recent egulatory and commercial developments, if approved, will open the door for discriminatory behaviour by network operators that will bring about a degeneration of the Network, where deals will be cut so the communications of some large companies will receive priority over those of innovative new providers and ordinary users.

7) The Financial Data Protection Act of 2006, H.R. 3997, concerns data breaches and identity thefts.. but not in the way we would have expected.
H.R. 3997 will abolish the obligation for companies and institutions to inform users when they suffer a data breach. Individual notification will be required only after the company experiencing the breach decides that it could be “ reasonably likely” to result in actual ID thefts or account frauds.

Cool The “broadcast flag” legislation has been presented as the solution for piracy , but actually, as reported by CDT, “A flag regime would give the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) unprecedented authority to regulate entry of new consumer technologies into the marketplace.
Also, a flag regime could prevent, among other things, "fair use" of clips from broadcast news or political debates” in this case, specific limits and safeguards would be essential, but a version of broadcast flag legislation included in the Senate telecommunications bill does not contain all the necessary safeguards.

9) An "audio flag" legislation designed to protect against devices that facilitate convenient copying of songs from digital, satellite, or Internet radio, has been required by the music recording industry. The aim is that of restricting private, personal copying, even if the content is never shared with anyone else and never touches the Internet.
“Currently, a version of audio flag legislation is included in the Senate telecommunications bill. Several other bills include provisions that would limit personal copying of music by withholding key licenses or exemptions from any company offering products with personal copying capability.”, the CDT review reports.

If any of these bills would be approved and enforced, a dangerous precedent would be set allowing the congress to regulate peoples’ usage of the Internet and gaining this way an incredible power on communications and information streams… Are we sure that this would be a good thing?

http://www.zone-h.org/content/view/14159/31/

Links to the relevant legislation contained in the link to the article.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so, let's see -
2 bills that would increase federal surveillance powers.
2 that theoretically protect children by either stopping them from talking to anyone, or label just about everything as naughty sexy stuff.
4 that either help big business make more money, or help them cover their asses so they won't lose any.
and one that will let them limit people's opportunities to see news clips.

i am so depressed about my country.
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Secret



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See: Apocalypse Now thread Razz
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Xilonen



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Major Tom wrote:
by that logic, no shelf space should be wasted on children's books, the majority of fiction or any non-fiction topic that doesn't strike you as important.


nono, tom, i'm sure he'd agree it should be there, but by god, if someone else is using a book he wants, they better damn well give it up if they aren't using it for strictly educational purposes!
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