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Christians, Jews, Muslims, oh my.
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DavidsonX



Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:17 am    Post subject: Christians, Jews, Muslims, oh my. Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw3o5tMXaAE
I don't know if anyone's brought this up before so here we go.
If you watched the video, you can see that they actually bring up a valid point. In a world, where Christians, Jews, Muslims all technically serve the same god, but are constantly fighting one another in some way or another. The question that obviously comes up is, "Whose in the right." Is one of them right? Are all of them right? Or are all of them wrong?


Last edited by DavidsonX on Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Amilam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 922

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the future, please post in the YouTube Video Thread.
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Dro



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3862

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, DX is using the video as a stepping stone to a more discussive topic. "Whose in the right?" is very thought-provoking indeed. The mind churns to fill in the gaps. "Whose socks are in the right drawer?" "Whose turn is it to get kicked in the right testicle?"

Frankly, I have no answer.
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Uncle Benny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 8124

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dro speaks in riddles, but if you delve deep enough, all you will find is...

...

well damn, I don't have a clue either.

I don't even know if there really is a god that is the creator, or if god is just figment of our imagination given power due to our undeniable power of the mind.

I like to believe that in about 10 years, a prophet shall arise, and he shall speak in glory of his noodly appendage, and in another 20 years, the church of flying spaghetti monster will be established, well funded, and thrives even better then scientology.
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 2565
Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a much more subtle issue than can be stated as a simple jew vs. muslim vs. christian. There are disparate interpretations of all three faiths (esp. Christianity), and often the different sects are just about as much at odds with eachother than the three major monotheistic religions.

I find it all about as useful as arguing whether a particular shade of blue is pale, or light, but I'm speaking as an atheist. I don't care if you're a Shia or Sunni moslem, Reform or Orthodox jew, or a Catholic or Mormon christian. You all believe in a one true God, you just can't reach a consensus on what he's saying, or sadder yet, whose the favorite.

The major battle for thoughtspace in the future will boil down to Religion vs. Objectivity, I don't have to say which side I'm on. Twisted Evil
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Tycho



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rather then say who is right, I'd like to say that I think the religions are in fact very different. Different right to the fundamentals of their faith.

Each has a totally unique way to reach God.

Jews: The basis of their aproach to God is the 10 commandments (and the other laws in the Torah). Moses gave God's people the law so they could seek God and please/worship him with their lives. If you lead a righteous life, you get to be close to God. And if you screw up, go to the temple with a sacrifice (porportional to your sins).

Christianity is based on the assumption that after a preordained period of Jewish law, through which humanity grew morally and culturally, God stepped in and offered a loophole.
1. God is perfect - and can't abide sin in his presence
2. Sacrifices were only a temporary fix, and soon the Jews (even if the sin was only a white lie) fell away from the standard of perfection that God wanted and then had to sacrifice again.
3. So God offered a super sacrifice. A human who contained the entire essence of God, Jesus. He came to earth and got slaughtered. He offered a new way into heaven.
4. The new way, rather than relying on human effort and ritual sacrifices, if you believe in Jesus and follow him, he will be the equivalent of an infinite number of sacrifices for you. And let you in the back door of heaven
(which means that a rapist, if he genuinely repents and believes in Jesus can go to heaven)

Islam
After Christianity had existed for a while, Muhammad altered things again. He claimed that Jesus was merely a prophet and never really died, thus negating the super sacrifice that Christians depend on. He claimed that the Bible and the true religion -Islam, had been degraded.
There are 5 main concepts (pillars) to Islam
1. you must say that you're a muslim and follow Allah
2. you must make a pilgrimage to Mecca
3. you must give alms (to the poor)
4. prayer 5 times a day
5. fast during Ramadan
When you die, your good deeds and your bad will be weighed on a scale and whichever way the scale tips will be your fate.


Jews rely on laws and sacrifices (Note: once the temple was destroyed, modern day Jews believe that it would be blasphemy to offer sacrifices elsewhere, so that's why you don't see clouds of burning oxen over synagogues)
Christians chase after Jesus as he heads back to heaven hoping to be brought in too
Muslims follow their pillars and hope that their scales will tip the right way


If I made a mistake defining religions - I'm sorry.

My point is, Jews, Muslims, and Christians have very distinct views on who God is and how to reach him. And it's not so easy to expect the world to become Baha'i and believe that it's all the same God. That's a whole other can of worms.

Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Baha'i, Atheist, Hindu, Buddhist, Jedi, Agnostic
Pick one, and hope to God you're right, because if you aren't....

Who likes to gamble *grin
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Secret



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 5429

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found it odd for a long time how Christianity was set up. They had their God crucified by the Romans, and then, in what seems to me to be the greatest incident of damage control in the history of mankind, changed their religion to say that their God's death had been NECESSARY and that it was the whole POINT of it.

Of course, I'm heavily agnostic, so I'm far from accepting these kind of things on faith...
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Major Tom



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

many voices of disaffected surface analysis, yet none of them agree.

which has the right version of disbelief?
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noone, the question is absurd. Didn't stop me from trying to give my view on it.
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Marik



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1234

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:51 pm    Post subject: pastafarianism 4 lyfe Reply with quote

I'm going to die and be confronted by Ahura Mazda.

"I don't know how to put this politely," I'll say, "But I wasn't sure I was expecting this."

"Oh, don't worry about it." Mazda will say, in infinite wisdom. "It's a real mindfuck -- all these people all fighting and dying over these strange, newfangled religions, only to come up here and find -- surprise! -- Zoroastrianism is the only true religion. They totally didn't call it."

"Wow," I'll say. "Kind of all makes all our culture wars seem silly."

"Yeah. Anyway, come on over here and I'll get you signed in by my clerk, the Flying Spaghetti Monster ..."
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6574

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject: Re: pastafarianism 4 lyfe Reply with quote

Marik wrote:
I'm going to die and be confronted by Ahura Mazda.

"I don't know how to put this politely," I'll say, "But I wasn't sure I was expecting this."

"Oh, don't worry about it." Mazda will say, in infinite wisdom. "It's a real mindfuck -- all these people all fighting and dying over these strange, newfangled religions, only to come up here and find -- surprise! -- Zoroastrianism is the only true religion. They totally didn't call it."

"Wow," I'll say. "Kind of all makes all our culture wars seem silly."

"Yeah. Anyway, come on over here and I'll get you signed in by my clerk, the Flying Spaghetti Monster ..."


Would you giggle like a fan girl as you were being signed in, then?

...

I sure would.
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Marik



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1234

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:54 pm    Post subject: saucy!~ Reply with quote

I think I would be up for anything short of asking for a noodlejob.
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Dro



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3862

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That explains why I feel like praying when I pass by my Acura/Mazda dealer.
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DavidsonX



Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically I'm just trying to point out the the futility of so called "holy wars".

In fact, these "holy wars" might be the reason why God doesn't make any public appearances anymore. Or why he hasn't chosen a new prophet. I mean the last so called prophet he met up with was Muhammad (correct me if I'm wrong) and then it got perverted when many of his followers thought that they were the chosen and that all others were infidels and then came the fighting. The same can be said about Christians during the Middle Ages with the Crusades.

I can almost imagine what would happen if another prophet appeared.
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Kilgore



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2833
Location: Portland, Or

PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your theory falls down when you recall that the Almighty sanctioned and supported a whole passel of holy wars whilst leading the Jews to the Holy Land.
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