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In the World of They're Going to Kill Us All!
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DeD CHiKn



Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 10223
Location: Baltimore, Maryla*gunshot*

PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CTrees wrote:
Just watch. Especially past about the half way point. It's a robot bemoaning not being let lose to kill us all!


...

The last thing I hear before being crushed to death had better not be a chipper british accent.
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picturesofsky



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3072
Location: England

PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And to power the evil killer robot dogs from hell, it's the world's first deliberately evil Artificial Intelligence:

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=defining-evil
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Pontupo



Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robots are coming... so we should talk about it

Quote:
He [Ronald C. Arkin] and others say that the technology to make lethal autonomous robots is inexpensive and proliferating, and that the advent of these robots on the battlefield is only a matter of time. That means, they say, it is time for people to start talking about whether this technology is something they want to embrace.
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tinkeringIdiot



Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 1057

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So there are a lot of gallys out there?

Quote:
His report drew on a 2006 survey by the surgeon general of the Army, which found that fewer than half of soldiers and marines serving in Iraq said that noncombatants should be treated with dignity and respect, and 17 percent said all civilians should be treated as insurgents. More than one-third said torture was acceptable under some conditions, and fewer than half said they would report a colleague for unethical battlefield behavior.
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Pontupo



Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad you noted that... the very same passage stuck out in my mind as well =) Maybe we _should_ replace him with a robot?
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tinkeringIdiot



Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 1057

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's certainly an interesting debate. At the moment I fail to see the dark side, but then I'm an engineer and therefore have more faith in engineered systems than is probably healthy.

I'd say robots could be fine for patrol duty where they would be easy to train and have fairly repeatable operating conditions. Sending them in to do raids or other offensive maneuvers would pose more of an ethical issue to me. Though they can be built with a fairly large safety factor since they are disposable.
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Pontupo



Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 740
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would worry about about sending them into very complicated recognition scenarios where they would have to do something like identify a "civilian." From what I understand, our visual recognition software isn't anywhere near the level required for that kind of analysis.

The border guard scenario seems promising... but somehow I still worry a bit, given the current status of our AI abilities, about arming them with lethal weapons. I'd rather they had like stun guns or something. It'd suck ass to get pwned by a robot with an AK-47 just for trespassing.
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Zasabi



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 259
Location: Florida, US

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They could, y'know, do a warning first or something. Assuming they're all linked, if one goes down, you'd probably know right away and could rectify the situation. Hell, you could make it so that if it ever has to give out a warning, it sends out a flag or something in the system, so you can check out the area with a camera or something, see what's going on for yourself.

*shrugs* Maybe.
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tinkeringIdiot



Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 1057

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you wouldn't be comfortable without a human in the loop, Zasabi? What about less-lethal weaponry? Crazy knockout gas and such?

If you ran them in teams, you could have one give a warning and the other use lethal or less-lethal armament if the first one is destroyed. How about that?
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Kilgore



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2833
Location: Portland, Or

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys can have all the faith you want, but when one of your robot border guards shoots up a deaf kid there's going to be hell to pay.
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tinkeringIdiot



Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 1057

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naturally. But the question posed acknowledges that there will be mistakes. What I'm trying to decide is if I'm more comfortable with mistakes made by machines or mistakes made by humans. In my mind, a machine that makes a mistake can be more easily corrected than a person. No trial, no counseling, no blame...just reprogram/rebuild the bot and try again. That combined with the repeatability of machinated actions has me leaning toward embracing the technology.
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Zasabi



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 259
Location: Florida, US

PostPosted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem is that in the case of an actual attack, such gear is not as effective, especially if the enemy know. Non-lethal gases can be defeated with the proper equipment, and I'm sure there's some method of blocking off taser-like hits.

Your idea is a good one, and is kind of linked to what I had in mind. I was more going for just a slightly less damaging scenarios- say it's just some random guy who stumbles onto the base. In the case of the robot being destroyed or injured, then it's probably better for them to respond without the need for a human approver. Still, an alarm should go up at the least to keep humans in the loop.

I guess the perfect way it'd work to me is

1. Verbal Warning, flag system and offer visual feed to support staff.
If ignored and approved of a response, go to step 2 or 3. If attacked, go straight to 4.
2. use non-lethal weaponry, preferably something that has the least chance of accidentally killing someone.
3. Signal a human squad to assist
If approved or, as above, attacked, commence 4.
4. Begin use of lethal weaponry, signal the alert, possibly allow use of other sentries to aid the machine as to attempt to solve the problem before any more of our lives are lost. Our being the side utilizing them.

Something like that. Not too complex, methinks.

Edit- As for dealing with the Deaf, we can also have powerful spotlight-type displays along with some sort of bright red "Alert! Turn back now!" type thing upon spotting someone. If they're Deaf and Blind, then they're screwed. Sucks to be them, at that point, if the coordinator decides they're a threat.
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Mindslicer



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1804
Location: North of the People's Republic of Massachusetts

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilgore wrote:
You guys can have all the faith you want, but when one of your robot border guards shoots up a deaf kid there's going to be hell to pay.


Nothing will go wrong.

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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12142
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here I was debating whether to put a Mindstorms NXT kit, Robosapien V2 or a Bladestar on my holiday Wishlist.
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tinkeringIdiot



Joined: 13 Oct 2008
Posts: 1057

PostPosted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1.) Robosapien, duh.
2.) That guy in the three piece suit is scary.
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