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Bush, meet dead horse, here's your bat.
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 2565
Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 4:04 pm    Post subject: Bush, meet dead horse, here's your bat. Reply with quote

Pulled from the BBC

Quote:
Bush speech backs Iraq strategy

US President George W Bush is giving the first in a series of speeches defending his strategy in the "war on terror", as mid-term polls approach.

Mr Bush, addressing military veterans in Salt Lake City, Utah, said Iraq was the "central front" in the fight against terorism.

He predicted "victory for the cause of freedom and liberty" in a "decisive ideological struggle" with Islamists.

He is to speak several times on Iraq and security in the next two weeks.

Correspondents say his Republican party fears unease over the Iraq war could damage their standing in coming polls.

BBC correspondent James Westhead says the White House is thought to be trying shift attention from the unpopular war in Iraq to the global terror threat.

He says the threat remains a politically potent issue, and one over which the president has the backing of much of the US public.

Iran condemned


Mr Bush said Islamist groups held "the rigid conviction that free societies are a threat to their twisted view of Islam".

US servicemen and women were showing great courage in defending freedom in what he termed "the first war of the 21st Century".

If the US did not confront terrorists in places like Iraq, Mr Bush said, then they would face them within the US.

He denied there was a civil war in the country.

The president also condemned the government of Iran, which he said was supporting terrorist groups like Hezbollah and defying the international community with its nuclear activities.

"It is time for Iran to make a choice. We've made our choice - we will continue to work closely with our allies to make a diplomatic solution, but there must be consequences for Iran's defiance and we must not allow Iran to develop a nuclear weapon."

Mr Bush's two-week-long series of speeches on the "war on terror" coincides with the anniversary of the 11 September 2001 attacks and culminates in an address to the United Nations on 19 September.

The US is to hold mid-term polls on 7 November.


I cannot begin to comprehend how out of touch with reality this man is.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
He predicted "victory for the cause of freedom and liberty" in a "decisive ideological struggle" with Islamists.


how, exactly, does he think we are fighting them ideologically? he is totally opposed to anyone talking about anything other than military responses - none of that pantywaist "diplomacy" stuff, any questioning of american actions is practically treasonous - so how, exactly, is this ideological struggle thing working? what, if we pound iraq hard enough, the other guys will just slink off? i mean, i know he hasn't studied history or law or anything - but surely he's read a few comic books - doesn't he know what happens to the bully who goes around kicking sand in people's eyes?

he really doesn't get that this isn't an organized enemy we are fighting - and now matter how often he tries to make islamic terrorists into some sort of monolithic group, that's still not what they are.
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Agamemnon



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How would you fight them, then, mouse?
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are we fighting Islamists and not terrorists and rogue states?
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Agamemnon



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah. How do we fight terrorists?
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agamemnon wrote:
Yeah. How do we fight terrorists?

We could always invade some country or other.
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Agamemnon



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not looking for smarmy comments about what the admin has done. I'm looking for genuine alternatives.
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can truly say that the only way to fight terrorism, is with cannibalism.
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Major Tom



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

first, we stop the self-indulgent attempts at nation building so that our armed forces can be deployed when and how they are needed for national defense.
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Agamemnon



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any way to offer alternatives without pointing out the perceived mistakes of the current administration?
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Major Tom



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no,

it would be irresponsible not to admit that dealing with this administration is the first step toward a viable alternative.
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Agamemnon



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just what I expected...
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agamemnon wrote:
I'm not looking for smarmy comments about what the admin has done. I'm looking for genuine alternatives.

In the long run the answer was ironically said best by Bush at the G8 summit. We can also
not rely so heavily on Deterrence with threats. But don't dismiss my comment as pure smarm either. Invading Iraq destroyed US international credibility and drew invaluable resources away from rebuilding Afghanistan and hunting down Bin Laden back when it still may have been possible to find him. Now our armed forces are engaged in daily street fights with insurgents and the longer we stay there without significantly rebuilding outside the Green Zone the less effective both the new Iraqi government and the US will be in the region. The war was fought for intellligence that the administration knew was faulty and we are being given evidence that credibly suggests that the admin was dead set on invading Iraq and any cost regardless of any development at the time. We're fucked, do you understand? Fucked. Not only are we giving more people reason to turn into anti-US terrorists, we're also destroying our capability to respond by pouring National Guard and re-activated Marines, not to mention our standing Army and billions upon billions of dollars, into a political shithole we won't be able to climb out of any time soon. Why did we invade in the first place?
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Agamemnon



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again, I'm not looking to rehash the Iraq situation. That's been done to death. Let's say we go back to before Iraq. What do we do about terrorism?
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quit cherry-picking intelligence like the Administration did?
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