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Remember EVE Online?

 
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 3772

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 1:52 am    Post subject: Remember EVE Online? Reply with quote

I think it was Sam that posted an enormously long article some guy wrote about his experiences ripping off people for huge amounts of in-game cash a year or so ago. Now, someone else has gotten into the same business, only with a fake bank, taking in around $170,000 worth of in game currency.

Quote:
Online "banker" runs off with cash, avatars cry foul

8/28/2006 1:57:15 PM, by Peter Pollack

It might have been a scene out of some movie about the Great Depression. Hundreds of frantic people tearing their hair out as they mob the doors to a bank, only to realize that the bank's owners, along with their money, had vanished into thin air.

This scene, however, took place not in some seemingly distant historical period, but much closer to home (for some of us). The location was EVE Online—a science-fiction-based MMORPG, and the bank was the Eve Intergalactic Bank—a privately run in-game institution that for several months convinced EVE Online players to deposit their spare "money" into accounts with the enticement of accruing several points of interest per month. That seemingly virtuous idea came to a crashing halt when the proprietor of the EIB, known to the game universe as "Cally," absconded with around 790 billion simoleons ISK—the currency of the EVE Online world.

EIB was supposed to function much as a real bank would, turning its assets into investment capital, then using the returns to pay interest to bank clients and provide a tidy profit to the bank itself. Instead, it functioned more like a 1980s-era savings and loan, with no FSLIC to protect the clients. In short, Cally got away scot-free, even leaving behind a (rather boring) 10 minute video (download) to taunt those whose "fortunes" were lost.

The collapse of EIB has spawned a bit of an uproar in the MMORPG community, and there has been some musing on how real-world laws might be applied in the future to bring such "criminals" to justice (we're talking about the actual human players here, not the in-game avatars).

Unfortunately, as spectacularly disappointing Cally's crime may be to some of those living in the EVE Online universe, it is unlikely that the FTC will be signing up and logging in with a team of virtual investigators any time soon. For one thing, and I think this needs to be made absolutely clear so that there is no confusion: NO ACTUAL MONEY WAS STOLEN.

The legitimacy of any activities performed by the avatar known as Cally is determined solely by the operators of EVE Online. It is up to EVE Online to reprimand Cally—if in fact, it is determined that he did something against the rules set forth in the EULA. So far, it appears that may not be the case, and at last report, Cally was roaming free—armed and extremely wealthy.

Yes, it is true that some players—in defiance of EVE-Online's EULA—can be found farming and selling items and ISK through various channels. It has been estimated that the stolen 790 billion ISK could fetch as much as $170,000 in the real-world marketplace, and this type of thinking leads some to believe that the overtaxed real-world legal system may at some point get involved when an in-game economic catastrophe occurs.

It won't.
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's so amazingly beautiful, it actually made me grin like an idiot at my computer.
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The Victim Here



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2813
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someday, the lawyers will get involved.

A few later, there'll be a Law and Order about it.

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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 29, 2006 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AN EVE ONLINE PRIMER

by Google Image Search









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strangemusic



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 305
Location: Vancouver, BC and Kingston, ONT

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shit, i just STARTED playing Eve... it's spiffing, i've got myself a Kestrel, but it's kind of... well.. boring as fuck.
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Katrin



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 293
Location: Some place HAWT

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

strangemusic wrote:
shit, i just STARTED playing Eve... it's spiffing, i've got myself a Kestrel, but it's kind of... well.. boring as fuck.


I believe it's more of a subtle game.

The one where you kindly wait in the shadows, waving and smiling pleasantly to all that pass. And when they do pass and their backs are turned to you, you coolly and carefully slip their wallet into your pocket and walk the other way, grinning mischievously.

Gentlemens, I believes we haves the next evolutions of the Sims Onlines.
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Desire



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 587
Location: AK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but pirates and such are rampant on EVE. I have to wonder if these people have been paying attention the the game they've invested so much time and effort in to. In many ways, it is a brutal game and you take a risk trusting anyone. I have seen people who have played together for years on EVE and become friends, suddenly turn nasty and rob their former friends & corp mates of everything they can. Like I said, it is a brutal game. I'm amazed so many people were so stupid.
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Willem



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to play this game, but I'm poor, so I can't.

Also: A lovely experiment. Funny too.
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jsimpleton



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 143
Location: maryland/dc area USA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

when you sign up for an MMORPG, don't they have this disclaimer that they own everything in the game world? if that's the case then has anything really been stolen in the real world sense?
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Katrin



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
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Location: Some place HAWT

PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You may have heard about a guy who recently was convicted of murdering a man during a dispute over a rare, valuable sword. That sword that was not made of metal or anything solid, but rather of 1's and 0's inside a computer hundreds of miles away. It was a sword he had won in the MMORPG Legend of Mir 3.

Insane, right? I mean, let's say our friend John has his Bonebiter (one of countless powerful weapons in WoW) and a man steals it somehow. Should the thief be convicted of a crime and punished in the real world? Did you snort with laughter at that question? Why?

The victim worked many hours to "earn" the object. The victim used it daily and depended on it. He derived happiness and satisfaction from it. So why shouldn't depriving him of it be punishable by law? If you say, "but it's just something he used in a game," I'll say that golf is also just a game. Want to see what happens to me when I steal a new set of golf clubs?

If you say, "but the Bonebiter doesn't even exist," I'll say it exists in exactly the same way that the songs and software I download off Bittorrent exist. And yet stealing them is a crime. The only difference is that when I steal a song, nobody else is deprived of the song. When that guy stole John's Bonebiter, he was left unarmed and forced to go find a replacement. That theft actually hurts more, not less.

So when will we start to see laws prohibiting the theft and misuse of game-world objects? As soon as members of the gaming generation become lawmakers, that's when.


Taken from here.
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Secret



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 5429

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Among others, thing is, Katrin, video games are easily changeable. With a few clicks of a mouse, the creators of the game could give John a million Bonebiters, or take away the one he has. They could even ban him and delete his character, something equivalent, if that standard holds, to breaking into a man's house and robbing him blind. Should they be punished for that? If so, MMORPGs might cease to exist, which if the standard is still holding would be equivalent to every bank in the country burning all their money and the government being unable to compensate savers. I'd like to stay away from the top of that particular slippery slope.
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jsimpleton



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 143
Location: maryland/dc area USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Katrin wrote:
Quote:
You may have heard about a guy who recently was convicted of murdering a man during a dispute over a rare, valuable sword. That sword that was not made of metal or anything solid, but rather of 1's and 0's inside a computer hundreds of miles away. It was a sword he had won in the MMORPG Legend of Mir 3.

Insane, right? I mean, let's say our friend John has his Bonebiter (one of countless powerful weapons in WoW) and a man steals it somehow. Should the thief be convicted of a crime and punished in the real world? Did you snort with laughter at that question? Why?

The victim worked many hours to "earn" the object. The victim used it daily and depended on it. He derived happiness and satisfaction from it. So why shouldn't depriving him of it be punishable by law? If you say, "but it's just something he used in a game," I'll say that golf is also just a game. Want to see what happens to me when I steal a new set of golf clubs?

If you say, "but the Bonebiter doesn't even exist," I'll say it exists in exactly the same way that the songs and software I download off Bittorrent exist. And yet stealing them is a crime. The only difference is that when I steal a song, nobody else is deprived of the song. When that guy stole John's Bonebiter, he was left unarmed and forced to go find a replacement. That theft actually hurts more, not less.

So when will we start to see laws prohibiting the theft and misuse of game-world objects? As soon as members of the gaming generation become lawmakers, that's when.


Taken from here.


I see your point (sort of, some things still confuse me but i won't bring it up unless you ask). It still seems to me that ownership of the 1's and 0's never changed hands. The company that runs the servers and games still have control of the 1's and 0's. So basically no known law is broken.

Also, upon signing up for the game there isn't a universal understanding that "stealing" is prohibited, punishable or even frowned upon. Stealing is something that is sufficiently defined in the "real" world (have laws governing them) and not in the game world. Is a casual gamer to believe that laws that hold true in the "real" world should automatically be applied onto the game world? The point i'm trying to make is this: at this point in time, it would be unfair to punish someone when they did not and cannot (because there is no universal guidelines for it) know that what they were doing was in fact wrong and punishable.

The question now is whether there should be a law to prohibit stealing in games. And that to me is the more interesting question and should be debated.
Some may even argue that stealing is part of the game. It adds another element and entertainment value to the game.
Some argue that its wrong because of the happiness it deprives (from post above). (i'm ending the post now because i've spent too much time semi-carefully pick out works as to avoid confusion and misunderstanding and i'm tired).
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jsimpleton



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 143
Location: maryland/dc area USA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i hate spending 20 minutes carefully picking out my words then clicking "send" but the message doesn't go up so i have to reiterate what i've written.
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