Sinfest

E-boy · Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:42 pm Post subject:

Absolutely... Except for the bit about the average neanderthal woman being able to break me in half. Hell even a three year old (mind you they grew faster so a three year old was a big bigger in a neanderthal) could toss around two hundred pounds or so (based on muscle marks on the bones).

That's not even going into what would happen if you brought neanderthal daddy's daughter home late, or Neanderthal hubby walked in on you with wifeypooh.
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima".

Willem · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 6306 Location: wasteland style

E-boy · Posted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:08 pm Post subject:

That and brain size is correlated highly with body mass in humans. Male brains are about as much bigger than female brains as male bodies are compared to female bodies.

The same correlation means neanderthal brains were not much larger than ours, if at all, in any absolute sense as they were substantially more heavily built.
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima".

mouse · Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 15441 Location: under the bed

The Highlord · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 555

Ridicuously sexy, since they also wore makeup (maybe).
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E-boy · Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:08 am Post subject:

You can trust Alan Alda. They were just being very conservative. Evidence of symbolic behavior is all over the place for early moderns. Beads, musical instruments, and art. For Neanderthals it's rather sparse. This may be due to environmental pressures changing the way they lived.

Early moderns were, prior to arriving in Europe, not that different technologically or culturally in ways that left evidence. There were what appear to be several false starts in Africa where extremely advanced implements like bone harpoon points beads and other hallmarks associated with moderns show up and then vanish again. One theory put forth for this is that competition drove innovation, but when population densities were low the need for the advanced behaviors dwindled. Evidence of this can be seen in relatively modern times among the natives of New Zealand who used relatively primitive implements compared to aborigines in Australia whom they had contact with and who used bows and arrows. It looks very like they arrived in New Zealand with a better tool kit than they ended up with.

There is a distinction between early and classic neanderthals. The latter showing much more evidence of cold climate adaptation. With sparser pickings in a colder environment and focusing on the kinds of game they did perhaps there was less direct competition among them and they simply didn't need the added behavioral complexity. They appeared to have stuck mostly to small family groups based on what evidence is being found and such groups, even if they chose to re-adopt more advanced behaviors would have had no easy time sharing them with others outside their group. Craftsmanship takes time to learn and there is evidence (Chatelperonian (SP?) assemblages that are very nearly the equal of modern tools of the same period) that they were quick studies.

I'm inclined to believe that the differences between us cognitively weren't that large. We had the advantage of larger groups in more direct competition to drive innovation. I'm giving Neanderthals the benefit of the doubt, but most who study them suggest they weren't as behaviorally flexible (whether that's due to different living arrangements or physical specialization I don't know). Artifacts of symbolic import are found for neanderthals and it's a big deal when they are, but it's a big deal because there are so very few of them. I'll close with a reminder that for large swathes of time anatomically modern humans behaved very much like neanderthals and didn't leave a lot of evidence of symbolic behavior. The occasional symbolic flare ups and disappearance of more modern trappings not withstanding. If anything that makes me even more inclined to believe that neanderthals could and occasionally did make the same leap even if they didn't get the chance to reach the full flower we did.

It's a bit sad to me really. These days you often hear the refrain "are we alone?" and we weren't. At one time there were us, Neanderthals, and potential relict H. Erectus populations (as well as those hobbit critters who are looking less like H. Erectus than originally thought). Three different species of hominid (possibly four) all here sharing the planet.
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima".

Yorick · Joined: 11 Jul 2006 Posts: 12065 Location: Mary's kesh

E-boy · Posted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:46 pm Post subject:

Well.... I'm not supposed to tell you, but he's a Neanderthal under all that make up. A really pissed off old Bitter bastard. He plotted mostly behind the scenes until those f***ing GEICO commercials pushed him right over the edge... Now that global warming is really starting to pick up he can finally see the fruits of his labors coming to pass... But I've said too much. If he finds out he'll.... URK! *Thud*
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid" ~ SGT John Stryker from "Sands of Iwo Jima".

mouse · Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 15441 Location: under the bed

....so he just played hawkeye all those years to gain our trust........
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Amon · Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 290

The Highlord · Joined: 09 Jul 2006 Posts: 555

Justification is always required.
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Yorick · Joined: 11 Jul 2006 Posts: 12065 Location: Mary's kesh

I justify my violence with violence.
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DeD CHiKn · Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:23 pm Post subject:

Amon · Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 290