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Polish plane crash
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Vox Raucus



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Him wrote:

It should also be noted that most of the dead MP's are from the main opposition party, as well as their presidential candidate.

Why should that be noted? A lot of important people died, regardless of their political stripe. Try to be less of a douchebag.
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Him



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vox Raucus wrote:
Him wrote:

It should also be noted that most of the dead MP's are from the main opposition party, as well as their presidential candidate.

Why should that be noted? A lot of important people died, regardless of their political stripe. Try to be less of a douchebag.

What? No, the point is that this disaster struck all around the political establishment not just the ruling coalition. I don't see in what way I am being a "douchebag" at all.
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Vox Raucus



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I maybe misread you, but the focus on "opposition MPs" suggested to me that you on the conspiracy bandwagon.
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Sam the Eagle



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yorick wrote:
WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
They were traveling to the memorial service of a Soviet massacre of Poles.

that's ironic ...


They were traveling to a second memorial service, there was a first one on Wed. which was attended by both countries' PM.
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Him



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vox Raucus wrote:
I maybe misread you, but the focus on "opposition MPs" suggested to me that you on the conspiracy bandwagon.

More like, I can't help but find it ironic that they most likely died because the passengers forced the pilot to try and land even though they had already failed to land 3 times. Doesn't make it anything less of a disaster though.
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CTrees



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to point out that in that situation, the pilot's options are 1.) divert to a different airport 2.) try land there anyway or 3.) eventually crash. I'm assuming there's a reason they didn't divert already (for instance, I have no idea how many airports there are in the Smolensk region), which really leaves only the latter two options. The passengers may have forced the landing, but it would have been forced eventually, anyway.
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Him



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CTrees wrote:
I'd like to point out that in that situation, the pilot's options are 1.) divert to a different airport 2.) try land there anyway or 3.) eventually crash. I'm assuming there's a reason they didn't divert already (for instance, I have no idea how many airports there are in the Smolensk region), which really leaves only the latter two options. The passengers may have forced the landing, but it would have been forced eventually, anyway.

The way I understand it they should have diverted to Minsk airport, I believe. But didn't.
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Last edited by Him on Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Willem



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC, they were told several times to head to another airport. They were at a military airfield and I'm sure that the area had more of those. And civilian airports, obviously. There's a small one 4kms from the air base.
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Fnorder
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The official Russian statement was that Minsk and Moscow were offered. Since both black boxes were found, the reason for not doing like the control tower said will be known shortly, as the boxes record every word in the cabin.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow - i heard there were a number of high-ranking government officials on the plane, but this is the first time i've seen the complete list. this really is a devastating blow.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

they lost some history as well: anna walentynowicz
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bad*lil*kitty



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I happened to have been in Niles, IL the day the plane crash happened. Which happens to be a HUGE population of Polish people in the Chicagoland area. In fact, we were headed to a famous Polish restaurant in the area for my great aunt's 80th birthday party.

And yes, I'm Polish.

It was definitely a sad day. There was a big memorial at the sculpture that Wojiech Seweryn made for the victims of Katyn. Tons of news vans and the like.

He was on the plane with the president, they're still looking for his body in the wreckage. The memorial was personal to him because his dad died in Katyn.

Definitely a crazy turn of events. We saw so many Polish flags all over the area, and so many red and white flowers laid at the memorial
Really sad. I guess they're saying the reason they were all on the same plane was because they couldn't afford to fly em in separate ones?

Either way, it definitely had a huge impact here. The president of Poland was supposed to be in Chicago for the Chicago Polish Constitution Day parade.

In case anyone wonders, here's a more ...coherent account of it.
http://chicagoist.com/2010/04/11/a_polish_artist_based_in_chicago_al.php
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Fnorder
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly, that's not entirely true. We still had Yakovlevs (Yak-40) one of which landed earlier in Smolensk with Polish journalists on board. It has happened many times before that commercial flights were chartered by Polish officials when Tu-s and Yak-s were unavailable. Also, the site could have been reached by train, and one of the invited politicians chose to use that connection. On top of that, the military has other transport planes at disposal.

But all guests were invited by the president to fly with him. Hopefully there will be procedures now to avoid such terrible tragedies in the future.
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bad*lil*kitty



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fnorder wrote:
Sadly, that's not entirely true. We still had Yakovlevs (Yak-40) one of which landed earlier in Smolensk with Polish journalists on board. It has happened many times before that commercial flights were chartered by Polish officials when Tu-s and Yak-s were unavailable. Also, the site could have been reached by train, and one of the invited politicians chose to use that connection. On top of that, the military has other transport planes at disposal.

But all guests were invited by the president to fly with him. Hopefully there will be procedures now to avoid such terrible tragedies in the future.


Ah ok, things I didn't know. :/ I do hope they have procedures changed so it can't happen again though.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

made me wonder what precautions we have in place - the news report i heard likened the plane to air force 1 - there must be times the president travels with other government officials, but i guess hopefully not so many at once.
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