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$80m Toward Cuban Democracy
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Dusty



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 650

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay i give up. i lose at life. you have trampled my confidence. TRAMPLED.
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Him



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 4181
Location: On edge

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:21 pm    Post subject: Re: $80m Toward Cuban Democracy Reply with quote

Celaeno wrote:
news.bbc.co.uk wrote:
US in $80m 'Cuba democracy' plan

US President George W Bush has approved an $80m (43m) fund towards boosting democracy in Cuba.

The president said the fund would help the Cuban people in their "transition from repressive control to freedom".

The fund is part of proposals put forward by the Commission for Assistance to a Free Cuba, which is considering a post-Fidel Castro Cuba.

A draft version of the proposals, released last week, drew strong criticism from Cuban officials.

In a statement, the president said: "I approved a Compact with the People of Cuba, which outlines how the United States will support the Cuban people as they transition from the repressive control of the Castro regime to freedom and a genuine democracy.

"The report demonstrates that we are actively working for change in Cuba, not simply waiting for change," the statement said.


Strained relations

The report also includes other measures such as enforcing sanctions already in place against the communist regime and 'providing uncensored information' for Cubans who want change.

The Commission for Assistance to a Free Cuba includes US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez on its panel.

Ties between the US and Cuba have steadily become strained since Fidel Castro took power in 1959 and the two nations have not had diplomatic ties since then.

Do you think this is a measure the US should take? What do you think the likely outcomes will be?
More exilecuban terrorists. I must note that I in no way support the repressive regime of Castro, but really it isn't like the US are backing the "nice guys" either. Instead of pouring money into shady rightwing anti-castro organizations the US should stop their trading ban, perhaps you should wait until the old castro dies.
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Agamemnon



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 907
Location: Studying somewhere. Or at least that's where I should be.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dusty wrote:
thewaitersitsondown wrote:
Huh. Fair enough, if that's accurate. I figured honestly there was probably an example or two... but one must admit, there haven't been many cases of countries benifiting from US interference, compared to the number of cases in which it was damaging.

Quote:
i think it would be a good idea to wait until after fidel dies. just to avoid you know, another missile crisis.


Um. Wow. There's a lot of stupid in that comment. Do you know what the Cuban Missile Crisis was?


er yes. when we spied on someone... cuba probably... and then they found out.


To put it so very simply, the USSR was allied with Cuba, and sent ships with nukes to Cuba. Kennedy (if memory serves) blocaded Cuba to prevent nukes from being stationed 90 miles off the coast of Florida. Tensions escalated until the Russian ships turned around and headed home. This brief summary doesn't do justice to the events. One must really understand the tension in the world during this time of the Cold war. People genuinely thought this was the coming of the nuclear holocaust.
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

America has been playing around with satelite states, protectorates, and shadow governments since it's inception. I'd expect them to actually get good at it around some point.

This is just another even-yeared announcement to try and flog the Republican base. To put it into perspective: eighty million dollars runs the military for about an hour and twenty minutes.
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John Mytton



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dinosaursareback! wrote:
you really think that 80 million dollars was invested out of sheer generosity?

it's not the cigars, but the potential exploitation available.

cuba was a crime haven, back in the day.

I don't see how the first two comments are at all related to the third.
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thewaitersitsondown



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2673
Location: The walrus was Paul

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agamemnon wrote:
Dusty wrote:
thewaitersitsondown wrote:
Huh. Fair enough, if that's accurate. I figured honestly there was probably an example or two... but one must admit, there haven't been many cases of countries benifiting from US interference, compared to the number of cases in which it was damaging.

Quote:
i think it would be a good idea to wait until after fidel dies. just to avoid you know, another missile crisis.


Um. Wow. There's a lot of stupid in that comment. Do you know what the Cuban Missile Crisis was?


er yes. when we spied on someone... cuba probably... and then they found out.


To put it so very simply, the USSR was allied with Cuba, and sent ships with nukes to Cuba. Kennedy (if memory serves) blocaded Cuba to prevent nukes from being stationed 90 miles off the coast of Florida. Tensions escalated until the Russian ships turned around and headed home. This brief summary doesn't do justice to the events. One must really understand the tension in the world during this time of the Cold war. People genuinely thought this was the coming of the nuclear holocaust.


Yes. Emphasis being on the missiles being supplied by the USSR. There could not possibly be another "missile crisis" today involving Cuba, as A) Cuba does not posess any nuclear missiles, and B) there is no super power backing them with even MORE nuclear missiles and the potential to cause a war that would spell disaster for all humanity if angered.
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Kilgore



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2833
Location: Portland, Or

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kame wrote:
America has been playing around with satelite states, protectorates, and shadow governments since it's inception.


More like since the beginning of the 20th Century, when TR, with his collary to the Monroe Doctrine and the aquisition of land in the Pacific, turned us into an imperial power.

If you're gonna hate on America, I'd encourage you to do a bit of reading so that you can rely on legitimate examples, instead of generalizations that betray your ignorance.
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Last edited by Kilgore on Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, we don't like it when our bashing on America gets dismissed because one person doesn't have their facts straight. We know what we are bashing and we like it that way!!! Bwahahaha!

*ahem* Facts are good. Thank you.

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nathan



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6282

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is not an absolute waste of 80 MILLION DOLLARS, because Cuba is so relevant! Also, there is no reason to think that any good would come of using 80 MILLION DOLLARS to fund research into heart disease or cancer or diabetes or anything else that would translate directly into The Public Good. Speaking solely as a taxpayer, I prefer my hard earned money go directly toward "making other countries feel good about the stuff America thinks is cool." Though I do wish we could put a little of this toward Iran, who also needs democracy because they did not elect their president who is causing an awful mess right now. I know we've got a little money going that direction, but it wouldn't hurt to "kick it up a notch," like that one flamboyant cooking guy says, who is so American that he can't help yelling "BAM!" al the time, and even while he is on tv in front of other people.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We could have put it into the 56 billion dollars being used to fund an anti-missile system which will never work!
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nathan



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's wrong with our old missile defense system?
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John Mytton



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 607

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilgore wrote:
kame wrote:
America has been playing around with satelite states, protectorates, and shadow governments since it's inception.


More like since the beginning of the 20th Century, when TR, with his collary to the Monroe Doctrine and the aquisition of land in the Pacific, turned us into an imperial power.

Although I would say that the only reason we consider that the point when we became an Empire is because that's the part we've lost. The original United States of America, if you remember, was 13 states on the Atlantic Coast, and we bought, fought or tricked the other 37 states.
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Kilgore



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2833
Location: Portland, Or

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Mytton wrote:
Kilgore wrote:
kame wrote:
America has been playing around with satelite states, protectorates, and shadow governments since it's inception.


More like since the beginning of the 20th Century, when TR, with his collary to the Monroe Doctrine and the aquisition of land in the Pacific, turned us into an imperial power.

Although I would say that the only reason we consider that the point when we became an Empire is because that's the part we've lost. The original United States of America, if you remember, was 13 states on the Atlantic Coast, and we bought, fought or tricked the other 37 states.


I was responding specifically to the charge that we have been "playing around with satelite states, etc." Our territorial aquisitions on the continent all involved expanding the borders of the country itself, rather than aquiring protectorates and the like.

I'm not sure if there's a difference between the two, in terms of what constitutes "empire building."
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kame



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: Alba Nuadh

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilgore wrote:

I was responding specifically to the charge that we have been "playing around with satelite states, etc." Our territorial aquisitions on the continent all involved expanding the borders of the country itself, rather than aquiring protectorates and the like.

I'm not sure if there's a difference between the two, in terms of what constitutes "empire building."


Damn, you people fact check? This is going to make it a lot more difficult to get my hair-brained leftist ideals across. Maybe I should start purveying my nuanced, centrists ideas instead. In any case, you caught me, and I apologize, the next time I try to point out faults in America's foreign policy, I'll get my facts straight.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nathan wrote:
What's wrong with our old missile defense system?


i've wondered that myself.....must be because we are a kinder, gentler nation now.
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