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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:12 am    Post subject: The look of a man that doesn't care any more. Reply with quote





That smirk pretty much sealed the deal on him getting the death penalty.
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picturesofsky



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't he draw Penny Arcade?
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Ironically, Halen's one of the few people here I wouldn't worry about terrifying my friends and family. In my head he ends every real life conversation stroking his chin and saying, "well yes, that sounds reasonable."
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Guest



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I'm against the death penalty no matter what. Whether the shootings were politically influenced, his accountability notwithstanding, he's obviously a streak of insanity and needs help.

His parents, too, were devastated, and I don't think claiming another life to quench the lives lost is the right course.
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picturesofsky



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what bemuses me more than anything is how none of the conversations around this at all have mentioned how the law can allow a person of questionable mental capacity at this level to own and possess a firearm in the first place.
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Ironically, Halen's one of the few people here I wouldn't worry about terrifying my friends and family. In my head he ends every real life conversation stroking his chin and saying, "well yes, that sounds reasonable."
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
Seriously though, acting like the blame doesn't fall on the republicans for creating this shit is silly. Speaking in broderisms about how both sides are to blame is some sort of holier-than-thou bullshit.


Bill Maher is fucking right. I don't like to admit it but he's right. One party has made violent, insane bullshit their platform. The bullshit isn't fringe-elements getting more attention, it's that one party has basically fucking embraced their fringe as their new vision.

I think this is simply a misreading of my intentions. My lament is not that we on the left are as violent or as crazy as those on the right, but that we have allowed the subversion of the political discussion by those on the extreme right. Reasonableness and acquiescence are not the same, though in this context they're often conflated. Reasonableness would dictate a measured response to unreasonable arguments, but what we've provided is a bunch of shrinking violets. That was the contribution of the left - to hem and haw and gnash our teeth about the unfairness of it all, but to otherwise do nothing. My point, then, is not that we need to lay claim to guilt, but that someone must claim reason and push for its return.

Bill Maher is correct in his perception of the movement of the political landscape, but I think he's dead wrong if he thinks gains will be made by becoming as batshit crazy as the right, simply with a leftward slant. I don't think that's his point, any more than trying to get the left to lay claim to guilt was my point. I think Maher and I are actually on the same message: shit is fucking crazy, and we on the left can't make do by saying it's not our fault. Action is required. Progressive action, founded in reason and providing contrast to the ravings of the right so that reasonable people will begin to see that their platform has become so tattered as to be all fringe.

Edit: guilt in this post refers to the feeling, rather than the state of being culpable, which is what I meant in the last post... Stupid english language.
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Last edited by Dogen on Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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The Victim Here



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A fiver says they take this and run like hell.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

picturesofsky wrote:
I think what bemuses me more than anything is how none of the conversations around this at all have mentioned how the law can allow a person of questionable mental capacity at this level to own and possess a firearm in the first place.

That sort of debate is going on in the comments and message boards, and in people's houses or workplaces. I doubt any actual legislators are going to make a case out of it until some times has passed so they don't come off looking like vultures preying off this tragedy, and until it becomes a policy issue there's really nothing for the news to say about it. However, you can bet the right wing pundits are already gearing up defensively and poisoning the well before anybody even makes it an official issue.
The way I see it, this guy was apparently known to have made death threats before. There needs to be more done in the way of background checks at the very least; anybody making death threats shouldn't be sold a handgun. Most other debates I've seen have to do with things like Concealed Carry laws, but I think that's the wrong place to look.


Dogen wrote:
Bill Maher is correct in his perception of the movement of the political landscape, but I think he's dead wrong if he thinks gains will be made by becoming as batshit crazy as the right, simply with a leftward slant.

That's actually why I can't watch Olbermann.


The Victim Here wrote:
A fiver says they take this and run like hell.

I'm kind of hoping Republicans make that an issue, so we can point out how different videogames are from being told by media figures and politicians alike that so-and-so is ruining the country, taking your freedoms, and dragging Grandma in front of Death Panels.
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Dogen wrote:
Bill Maher is correct in his perception of the movement of the political landscape, but I think he's dead wrong if he thinks gains will be made by becoming as batshit crazy as the right, simply with a leftward slant.

That's actually why I can't watch Olbermann.


A few weeks ago he compared Obama to Neville Chamberlain (and the Republicans implicitly to that guy with the funny mustache) for cutting a deal with Boehner et al over taxes. That made me appreciate his lamenting the state of our political discourse on Saturday, because after a day of overall bad news I needed a good laugh.
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Willem



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Dogen wrote:
Bill Maher is correct in his perception of the movement of the political landscape, but I think he's dead wrong if he thinks gains will be made by becoming as batshit crazy as the right, simply with a leftward slant.

That's actually why I can't watch Olbermann.

That's just it, though. Who can? You can't compare Olbermann to Beck, because Olbermann has nowhere near the influence Beck has. And who bases their views on what Olbermann has to say? Far, far less people than base their views on Glenn Beck.
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Willem



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willem wrote:
That's just it, though. Who can? You can't compare Olbermann to Beck, because Olbermann has nowhere near the influence Beck has. And who bases their views on what Olbermann has to say? Far, far less people than base their views on Glenn Beck.

You're not wrong. Not only is Olbermann less odious than Beck or Hannity, he's also less popular. But the point is that we shouldn't be trying to compete in that direction at all. We don't need a Liberal Glenn Beck. We don't even need a Conservative Glenn Beck. We need less Glenn Becks, and more Jon Stewarts on both sides.
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Willem



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
Willem wrote:
That's just it, though. Who can? You can't compare Olbermann to Beck, because Olbermann has nowhere near the influence Beck has. And who bases their views on what Olbermann has to say? Far, far less people than base their views on Glenn Beck.

You're not wrong. Not only is Olbermann less odious than Beck or Hannity, he's also less popular. But the point is that we shouldn't be trying to compete in that direction at all. We don't need a Liberal Glenn Beck. We don't even need a Conservative Glenn Beck. We need less Glenn Becks, and more Jon Stewarts on both sides.

But nobody is arguing that you should. What should happen, is that American liberals are more willing to get angry, to show their teeth, when needed. The left doesn't need someone that's angry/crazy 24/7, like Glenn Beck. They just - as a group - need to man the fuck up. They need to be calm and easygoing 90% of the time, but they also need that 10% of balls.

So, you shouldn't be afraid to bash the Tea Party for spouting all that hateful rhetoric. It's totally warranted, regardless of the political affiliation of the assassin.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, roger ailes has told beck, hannity, o'reilly et al. to tone it down and make their arguments 'intellectually' (i'm sure beck thinks he already does - hey, he uses a blackboard and everything!). AND he hopes "the other side" does it as well. so i guess that means olbermann. we'll see how that works out, and how long it lasts.

but you see how it works - he's acting like it's a 50-50 thing, we do it, they do it, no difference. and one keith olbermann, or bill maher, one poster with a bullseye on a conservative, gives him license to say so, even though the distribution of events is so uneven. the left does call the fringe right on this, they are doing it now - and the fringe right is responding like ailes has, by citing the small % of cases where a left-winger has been less-than-polite.

and then people like you, who can see that there isn't a 50-50 distribution, go the other way, and say the left never fights back at all. there's no winning.

we need fewer stupid people. can we ship them over to you?
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But they do fight back; they just never manage to make it heard outside of their own echo chambers. Browse through the Daily Kos and ThinkProgress and you'll find hundreds of posts complaining about hateful Tea Party rhetoric--but so what, that's just a bunch of liberals bitching about the Tea Party to another bunch of liberals. It won't find its way to the undecided center, where elections are decided, because it's pretty much only liberals who visit those sites.

What American liberals really need is the same media and political savvy as Republicans--which includes ruthlessness and balls, but it also includes simplifying their message. The Republicans can sell themselves as the party of fiscal responsibility even though they have all the fiscal responsibility of a sixteen-year-old because they are better than liberals at manipulating the media to lend them the impression that they are fiscally responsible.
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Willem



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
and then people like you, who can see that there isn't a 50-50 distribution, go the other way, and say the left never fights back at all. there's no winning.

Oh, it certainly started out like an attack. But then it quickly evolved into a fighting retreat, which will become more clear as time moves on. "Gosh, can't be too agressive, don't want to be like them, must respect both sides, balance bla bla bla". I can just feel the right twisting this into their advantage.

But yes, the left does fight back. But it never keeps it up and it does it in a profoundly useless way. Shadowcell said it well.

Quote:
we need fewer stupid people. can we ship them over to you?

Heh. We have enough of our own, don't worry. And don't get me started.
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