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bin Laden Dead! Symbolism and path from here
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:02 am    Post subject: bin Laden Dead! Symbolism and path from here Reply with quote

This deserves its own thread.

Mizike wrote:
And ["Obama"] killed Bin Laden, too.


ShadowCell wrote:
And announced it on the eighth anniversary of Bush's "Mission Accomplished" speech.

Holy shit.


Thy Brilliance wrote:
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/05/obama_osama_bin_laden_killed_u.html

I'm getting the feeling that this is going to be the best Cinco De Mayo ever.



Link to Obama's announcement of bin Laden's death followed by speech: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-fgw-osana-bin-laden-dead-20110501,0,7629692.story (edit: the full speech has been removed. Youtube link to full speech here.)


1) What did you do and think when you found out?
2) What does the US and other countries do now that a huge, huge symbol has been killed?


Me, I was at a Godsmack concert that was already intensified by power outages and the threat of storms. The entire front half of the crowd (maybe more) had just finished a group mosh, and then Larkin shared the news. I was ridiculously emotional, far more than I expected. However, I also like my somewhat Buddist friend's response: "We should never take pleasure in the death of another.... but in this case perhaps we can make an exception."

So tell me, what has this actually done? Is it all symbolic or is this an actual blow to that terrorist movement?

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Last edited by Lasairfiona on Mon May 02, 2011 4:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:27 am    Post subject: It's too funny. Reply with quote

Oh god, have you heard the guys that are now fabricating conspiracy theories between Hitler and Osama Bin Laden because their deaths were announced on the same day.
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 6:53 am    Post subject: images of osama Reply with quote

Gonna dump some random info.

34.146372, 73.216922 coordinates of the mansion.

look it up in google maps or something

man, there was a freakin golf course right there, there will be jokes about this for days

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Catel



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: It's too funny. Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Oh god, have you heard the guys that are now fabricating conspiracy theories between Hitler and Osama Bin Laden because their deaths were announced on the same day.

Leonardo da Vinci died on a May 2nd. Think about the Templars. It's all related. The Devil was probably created this day.
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Mizike



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got to say, I don't have any powerful reactions to this news. I'm certainly not upset that a mass-murderer has been killed. And I'm slightly pleased that it was done so efficiently and that the military buried him at sea within 24 hours (in accordance with Islamic practice) so as to prevent a shrine being set up for him. But September 11th never affected me personally -- the overreaction to it was far worse.

The one thing I'm truly glad of is that it shows Emmanuel Goldstein can be killed.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was getting ready for work.

I'm not sure what effect this will have on the global war on terror... but I'm kind of weirded out by the jubilation that erupted in NYC and DC. I don't think we should take pleasure in the death of anyone. I'm relieved that he won't be able to directly support and mastermind terror plots. I'm hopeful that, in time, this may come to be important in preventing further loss of life. I hope that families who lost loved ones will feel closure, that families of soldiers who died in Afghanistan will feel their deaths were not in vain.

I don't feel any pleasure in knowing bin Laden is dead, however. Pleasure is something you feel during good times, as a result of good things. Death itself is neither good nor bad, but the killing of a person is not a good thing. It's a sad thing. Sad that circumstances and bin Laden's choices led to the end of a life. The end of many lives. In my mind, though, his death is simply another casualty to add to the list of those who have died for ideological extremism. In that sense, it was an unnecessary death that he wrought with his own hand, because he chose violence and hatred over peace and compassion. It's all just very sad to me.
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Sam the Eagle



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: bin Laden Dead! Symbolism and path from here Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:

1) What did you do and think when you found out?
2) What does the US and other countries do now that a huge, huge symbol has been killed?


1- That ISI will have a hell of a time explaining this one.

2- If you mean:
- Western democracies, prepares for the backlash.
- Most of the world, business as usual.
- Few countries that could use terrorists, now would be a good time to send envoys and recruit for domestic purposes.
- Pakistan, wince.
- India, gloat.
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DeD CHiKn



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was in bed when I was told.

My reaction was a muffled sarcastic "grats" and then I rolled over.
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Mizike



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: bin Laden Dead! Symbolism and path from here Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:
Lasairfiona wrote:

1) What did you do and think when you found out?


1- That ISI will have a hell of a time explaining this one.


As always, Juan Cole is worth reading:
Quote:
The US story that the Pakistanis were not given prior notice of the operation is contradicted by the Pakistani news channel Geo, which says that Pakistani troops and plainsclothesmen helped cordon off the compound in Abbotabad. CNN is pointing out that US helicopters could not have flown so far into Pakistan from Afghanistan without tripping Pakistani radar. My guess is that the US agreed to shield the government of Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and President Asaf Ali Zardari from al-Qaeda reprisals by putting out the story that the operation against Bin Laden was solely a US one. And it may be that suspect elements of the Pakistani elite, such as the Inter-Services Intelligence, were kept out the the loop because it was feared they might have ties to Bin Laden and might tip him off.

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Samsally



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: bin Laden Dead! Symbolism and path from here Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
However, I also like my somewhat Buddist friend's response: "We should never take pleasure in the death of another.... but in this case perhaps we can make an exception."


I totally didn't read this before I posted in the mixed bag thread, hah.

I guess I don't feel there should be exceptions. Somber acceptance, sure... the knowledge that it is For The Greater Good, yeah okay. Delight? Not so much.
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trustedfaith



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been chalking it up to people just rejoicing at the fact that the person responsible for 9/11 and much much more cannot hurt anyone anymore as opposed to dancing that he's dead. It's closure more than anything else.
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Sam the Eagle



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 3:23 pm    Post subject: Re: bin Laden Dead! Symbolism and path from here Reply with quote

Mizike wrote:


As always, Juan Cole is worth reading:
Quote:
The US story that the Pakistanis were not given prior notice of the operation is contradicted by the Pakistani news channel Geo, which says that Pakistani troops and plainsclothesmen helped cordon off the compound in Abbotabad. CNN is pointing out that US helicopters could not have flown so far into Pakistan from Afghanistan without tripping Pakistani radar. My guess is that the US agreed to shield the government of Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and President Asaf Ali Zardari from al-Qaeda reprisals by putting out the story that the operation against Bin Laden was solely a US one. And it may be that suspect elements of the Pakistani elite, such as the Inter-Services Intelligence, were kept out the the loop because it was feared they might have ties to Bin Laden and might tip him off.



From what I remember, Pakistan' government is quite weak, Army being the one strong organization. Also, infighting between this or that general/agency head is more the norm than the exception.

Given the place (Abbottabad is but 1h away by car from the capital) it was quite an open secret for many people that Bin Laden was there. That imply in turn than more than one organization (ISI which isn't monolithic either, Army) was keeping a close watch on him. So keeping a whole agency in the dark doesn't hold water to me. On that account, I am pretty curious about who else died during that assault, and who they were working for...

To say that this operation was US only is a thin smokescreen at best. What remains to be seen now is how the various, thinking LeT like, groups will react to something that looks a lot like someone was sold and hang out to dry.

Oh, and the timing too... So auspicious.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
Why? I am sincerely curious. I even make a thread over in the General Discussion to talk about such things.



Because a huge chunk of our national soul is withered and dead because of the chase to kill this guy. Bin Laden is dead, but is the fighting over? Is it going to intensify now? Are all these individual cells of terrorist organizations going to suddenly pitch any plans they had because osama is dead? Do we get a little bit of our privacy back from the measures they took after 9/11? Does gitmo get closed? Are we leaving afghanistan now?

With all this a result of a decade old tragedy and not going away any time soon, i just can't be elated that yet another person got killed. Someone else will take his place eventually, the terror cells aren't going to dissolve because he died, thats why they're organized the way they are. Literally the only thing we're going to get out of this whole mess is a huge pile of dead bodies.

That's why i can't manage to be elated or excited or give his death much more than a meh. And all the footage of people cheering and dancing in the streets just reminds me of the demonstrations in the middle east that occured not long after the incident that started all this.
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Halen



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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2011 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man, they should have just google mapped him, would have saved a lot of time.
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