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bin Laden Dead! Symbolism and path from here
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... okay wiki:
Dawoodi Bohra wrote:
They have a very small, tight-knit community made up of approximately one million adherents worldwide, with the majority of adherents residing in India. There is also a large community in Karachi, Sindh, Pakistan, the destination of many who came as refugees in 1947 following the independence from the British Raj


ForwardUK wrote:
Where is FGM Practised?
The majority of cases of FGM are carried out in 28 African countries. In some countries, (e.g. Egypt, Ethiopia, Somalia and Sudan), prevalence rates can be as high as 98 per cent. In other countries, such as Nigeria, Kenya, Togo and Senegal, the prevalence rates vary between 20 and 50 per cent. It is more accurate however, to view FGM as being practised by specific ethnic groups, rather than by a whole country, as communities practising FGM straddle national boundaries. FGM takes place in parts of the Middle East, i.e. in Yemen, Oman, Iraqi Kurdistan, amongst some Bedouin women in Israel, and was also practised by the Ethiopian Jews, and it is unclear whether they continue with the practice now that they are settled in Israel. FGM is also practised among Bohra Muslim populations in parts of India and Pakistan, and amongst Muslim populations in Malaysia and Indonesia.

So there is a group in Pakistan but it isn't all or even the majority of Pakistan.
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Eiden.

Really, link it. And I don't mean simple wiki search.

And claim like our bigoted idiot that's a common practise. What Sam is moronic about is to claim this is a general practise, like to claim a guy can marry as many wives in US as he wants because Mormons exist there.

FGM is a barbaric practise more common in Africa (whatever religion be) and middle east but not from Iran Eastward. That's not even a common practise, it's outlandish even from common standard there, and it's legally punished afaik.

The height of Sam's stupidity is not that the claim is false per se, it's like claiming there are no serial killers in US or sexual molesters in France/Belgium, but broad brushing means cultural claims, like dowry murders/amputations are commons, are brushes under the carpet because of these outlandish calls means these guys sweeps away both as one cannot prove both of them.

Such a claim is arrogance at best.

(*) And dowry murders/problems are a lot more commons, and are as gruesome in the area. That's an issue our white knight have yet to address.
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Eiden



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pakistan counts as a problem country for FGM activists (like myself) for effectively permitting FGM to be maintained as a cultural practice inside its borders. It is actually another example one could use to portray Pakistan as a "pastiche" of ghastly cultural practices, even if FGM is thankfully not commonplace there outside of the Bohra Muslims. I guess the complaint would be relevant to the portrayal of Pakistan if someone were claiming that FGM was commonplace in Pakistan.
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Eiden



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:
And claim like our bigoted idiot that's a common practise. What Sam is moronic about is to claim this is a general practise, like to claim a guy can marry as many wives in US as he wants because Mormons exist there.


I'm confused as to whether or not you actually read Sam's response to you. Are you aware that he's not claiming that this is a general practice in Pakistan?
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Sam the Eagle



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, he's not that stupid, yet. Since he cannot back his claim up; he just hints about gory stuff then lead others to think his way. That's unfounded solipsism for j00.

That's the main point here. From a minority he generalizes about mainstream folks.

That's the main danger. There are a lot of things one can redress about Pak/India, "traditional" practices, that are abhorrent. But once the culprits can point out something they didn't do, like FGM, they'll sweep under the carpet things THEY actually do, and you're left looking like an arrogant Westener.
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, what evidence do you want? And certainly there is more terrible things going on (see the first mentioned revenge acid burnings). It would be nice if there was a map color coded to show prevalence of horrific practices by area but I haven't found that yet.
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Eiden



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:
Nope, he's not that stupid, yet. Since he cannot back his claim up; he just hints about gory stuff then lead others to think his way. That's unfounded solipsism for j00.


Let me repeat myself. Nobody is claiming that FGM is commonplace in Pakistan, and you even received a clarification that this isn't the claim being made. Your response was to maintain that this was the claim, and that's why it's okay to call someone a bigoted idiot. It's best to back up from this before backpedaling into providing other derogatory narratives for Sam.

You also asked about FGM in Pakistan. You have your answer. There is FGM in Pakistan. I know you can look at google and agree this is true.

I don't mean to be so condescending or be anyone's internet guardpuppy, but you're normally well thought out and here you're just swatting at strawmen in a fit of pique and it is hard to understand.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:
That's the main danger. There are a lot of things one can redress about Pak/India, "traditional" practices, that are abhorrent. But once the culprits can point out something they didn't do, like FGM, they'll sweep under the carpet things THEY actually do, and you're left looking like an arrogant Westener.


you know, i love this place - but somehow, i don't think a discussion in sinfest is going to permit the pakistani government to sweep anything under the carpet. i admit, bringing fgm into the discussion is a bit odd, but i doubt sam meant to imply that all pakistanis were in favor of the practice. even though such an attitude towards women fits in with more widely-practiced horrors, like throwing acid on women.

NOT THAT I'M SAYING EVERY PAKISTANI MALE IS OUT THROWING ACID AT GIRLS.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:
And claim like our bigoted idiot that's a common practise. What Sam is moronic about is to claim this is a general practise, like to claim a guy can marry as many wives in US as he wants because Mormons exist there.


Yeah um

Me wrote:
I used the quote to illustrate a wonderful cultural example of people making an argument for a horrid cultural practice remaining unchanged, not to say that the practice is commonplace in Pakistan. I might as well have used an example like 'now you see there's nothing really wrong with laws keeping homosexuality illegal' it, likewise, doesn't have to be about pakistan. Sorry for the confusion!


That would be a pretty moronic thing to claim, so I'm glad I didn't claim it. You're insisting this is my claim after I clarified otherwise, quite distinctly. I'm sorry about giving you that initial impression, or to have accidentally created such an ambiguity or unintended initial impression for you to take such impressive offense to, but the invented narrative you've stirred up about me and my 'idiotic bigotry' is dumb and you should take a breather on this one.

Because seriously, what the fuck
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calling Sam an idiot is one thing, but bigoted? Whaaaaaaaaaat? You're ready to lob that hefty aspersion around because of a misunderstanding and stick to your guns when he said that you've misunderstood him? You ask people to link you to the claim he wasn't originally making and when somebody does you dismiss the source out of hand?
Take a nap, dude.
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*sigh*

@Eiden,

You are claiming that's not a common practise, I've seen no such caveat nor claim this is as rare as every movie directors are like R. Polanski from Sam. A simple googling can back your claim up in a moment. That you're still seeing the tree for the forest baffles me.

From his previous posts he has shown a tendency to broad tarring things when it suits him, and I do think I've shown, time and again, the dangers this kind of simplicity can cause. That this does not pass across is sad, but it does happen. Pity.

We do not agree/understand one another, so be it. Let's not waste one another's time on this.

As for acid scarring, much more common, just look up what's happening in Iran.

Eagley Sam,
out of this thread.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
from his previous posts he has shown a tendency to broad tarring things when it suits him


You're right, like my calling people bigoted idiots out of the blue even when this was based on incredibly shaky rationales I should have apologized for? Hmm.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i've kind of lost track of what the point of all this is. what does whatever is happening in iraq have to do with the treatment of women in pakistan?
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
i've kind of lost track of what the point of all this is. what does whatever is happening in iraq have to do with the treatment of women in pakistan?


The point is that Sam the Eagle's distaste for other Sam has apparently driven him illiterate as like the first post other Sam makes after his quip is a clarification that it was not intended to paint it as a common thing.
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Eiden



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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam the Eagle wrote:
*sigh*

@Eiden,

You are claiming that's not a common practise, I've seen no such caveat nor claim this is as rare as every movie directors are like R. Polanski from Sam.


...This is a nonsensical complaint. I don't even mean from the grammar. Please go back to being old Sam the Eagle.
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