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Occupy Wall Street Thread
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeD CHiKn wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
The REAL problem is if they AREN'T going without food then where are they getting money to buy more food?


Same place I do. Presumably making the same, if not more, amount of money than I do.

Or should I tell you of the woman in front of me at the store who got about $75 worth of groceries for free because of some type of voucher she handed the clerk, based on the food she was buying I will assume it was WIC. While she herself sported several diamonds on each finger of the hand she held her cell phone with.

There's abuse of every system. Welfare, Medicaid, banking regulations, Alcoholics Anonymous, your flag football league. That welfare abuse (whether WIC or unemployment insurance) happens is not in question. And, really, no one is in favor of welfare abuse. So from that angle, you can sit anywhere you like. OWS, as much as it has a position on anything, doesn't have a position on welfare... mostly, I like to think, because even if welfare fraud cost us $50 billion annually it would pale in comparison to the money recouped from letting the Bush tax cuts on the wealthy expire ($3.8 trillion over 10 years). By contrast, according to the far-right Cato Institute we've spent a cumulative $5.4 trillion on welfare since 1965. This is why focusing on the bottom of society rather than the top seems vindictive to many on the left. Or, as Jon Stewart points out, ending the Bush tax cuts on just the top 2% of earners in America would reduce the deficit by the same amount as taking half of everything the bottom 50% own in this world ($700 billion).
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Willem



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeD CHiKn wrote:
If that's how you want to see it, knock your socks off.

What? You're angry because it's unfair, which is only normal. How else should I see it?
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeD CHiKn wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
The REAL problem is if they AREN'T going without food then where are they getting money to buy more food?


Same place I do. Presumably making the same, if not more, amount of money than I do.

Or should I tell you of the woman in front of me at the store who got about $75 worth of groceries for free because of some type of voucher she handed the clerk, based on the food she was buying I will assume it was WIC. While she herself sported several diamonds on each finger of the hand she held her cell phone with.

You're missing the point. She couldn't afford those things unless she's hiding income, neglecting bills, or skimping on necessities then she's either getting money illegally or dealing with stolen goods.
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Last edited by Darqcyde on Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeD CHiKn wrote:
But seriously, is the "99%" doing anything to help that out? I don't actually know the goals of anyone here other then to post videos of themselves "being opressed" and photoshops of their masses.

Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8o3peQq79Q
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
DeD CHiKn wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
The REAL problem is if they AREN'T going without food then where are they getting money to buy more food?


Same place I do. Presumably making the same, if not more, amount of money than I do.

Or should I tell you of the woman in front of me at the store who got about $75 worth of groceries for free because of some type of voucher she handed the clerk, based on the food she was buying I will assume it was WIC. While she herself sported several diamonds on each finger of the hand she held her cell phone with.

You're missing the point. She couldn't afford those things unless she's hiding income, neglecting bills, or skimping on necessities then she's either getting money illegally or dealing with stolen goods.


Or perhaps she's not affording them, and they're 1) fake and 2) gifts under the threshold of taxable income?

Is it likely? Not tremendoulys, but it's another possibility.
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeD CHiKn wrote:
Not sure why abuse was in parentheses there.

And it is a problem. It's not the only problem for sure, but it's a problem.


It is in parentheses because the abuse does not actually affect the system very much. Generally those who "abuse" welfare spend every fucking dollar they got anyway so it's money that directly goes into the economy.


More to the point, the abuse does not stop anyone who legitimately deserves the money. So the federal gov is giving out slightly more money but seriously noone should care in the slightest because it is put utterly and completely into the economy again.
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Him



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeD CHiKn wrote:
So where would a person who is tired of paying taxes so that the guy sitting next to him, making the same salary, can get food stamps to buy crab meat for 11.99 a pound while he himself has to buy food with his own money sit?

The Tea Party has been going on for years, haven't you paid attention?
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If ONLY enough of the Tea Party was smart enough to join these protest.
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Him



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
If ONLY enough of the Tea Party was smart enough to join these protest.
It's not in the Koch Brothers interest.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know right? Fuckin' Sam.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 4:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://news.yahoo.com/thousands-protesters-fill-nycs-times-square-230718896.html

Thousands of protesters fill NYC's Times Square

Quote:

NEW YORK (AP) — Thousands of demonstrators protesting corporate greed filled Times Square on Saturday night, mixing with gawkers, Broadway showgoers, tourists and police to create a chaotic scene in the midst of Manhattan. "Banks got bailed out, we got sold out!" protesters chanted from within police barricades. Police, some in riot gear and mounted on horses, tried to push them out of the square and onto the sidewalks in an attempt to funnel the crowds away.

Sandy Peterson, of Utah, who was in Times Square after seeing "The Book of Mormon" musical on Broadway, got caught up in the disorder. "We're getting out of here before this gets ugly," she said. The Occupy Wall Street demonstrators had marched north through Manhattan from Washington Square Park earlier in the afternoon. Once in Times Square, they held a rally for several hours before dispersing. Over the course of the day, more than 70 people were arrested.

Earlier in the day, demonstrators from the Occupy Wall Street encampment in New York City paraded to a Chase bank branch, banging drums, blowing horns and carrying signs decrying corporate greed. Marchers throughout the country emulated them in protests that ranged from about 50 people in Jackson, Mississippi, to about 2,000 in the larger city of Pittsburgh. "Banks got bailed out. We got sold out," the crowd of as many as 1,000 in Manhattan chanted. A few protesters went inside the bank to close their accounts, but the group didn't stop other customers from getting inside or seek to blockade the business. Police told the marchers to stay on the sidewalk, and the demonstration appeared to be fairly orderly as it wound through downtown streets. Later, police arrested 24 people at a Citibank branch near Manhattan's Washington Square Park. Most were detained for trespassing after they ignored a request by the bank to leave, police said.

Overseas, violence broke out in Rome, where police fired tear gas and water cannons at some protesters who broke away from the main demonstration, smashing shop and bank windows, torching cars and hurling bottles. Dozens were injured. A dozen demonstrators were arrested, the Italian news agency reported. Those arrested came from several Italian cities, especially in the south. Police said they seized clubs and incendiary devices from the protesters. Tens of thousands nicknamed "the indignant" marched in cities across Europe, as the protests that began in New York linked up with long-running demonstrations against government cost-cutting and failed financial policies in Europe. Protesters also turned out in Australia and Asia. In Canada, hundreds protested in the heart of Toronto's financial district. Some of the protesters announced plans to camp out indefinitely in St. James Park and protests were also held in other cities across Canada from Halifax, Nova Scotia, to Vancouver, British Columbia. In Mexico City, a few hundred protesters gathered under the towering, stone Revolution Monument to protest "exploitation" by wealthy elites. In the border city of Tijuana, about 100 protesters gathered in the banking district, including many university students protesting against the lack of jobs for graduates.

In the U.S., among the demonstrators in New York withdrawing their money from Chase was Lily Paulina, 29, an organizer with the United Auto Workers union who lives in Brooklyn. She said she was taking her money out because she was upset that JPMorgan Chase was making billions, while its customers struggled with bank fees and home foreclosures. "Chase bank is making tons of money off of everyone ... while people in the working class are fighting just to keep a living wage in their neighborhood," she said. "We aren't going to be a part of this system that doesn't work for us," said another demonstrator withdrawing her money, 20-year-old Brooklyn College student Biola Jeje. Other demonstrations in the city Saturday included an anti-war march to mark the 10th anniversary of the Afghanistan War. Among the people participating in that march was Sergio Jimenez, 25, who said he quit his job in Texas to come to New York to protest. "These wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were all based on lies," Jimenez said. "And if we're such an intelligent country, we should figure out other ways to respond to terror, instead of with terror."

Elsewhere in the country, nearly 1,500 gathered Saturday for a march past banks in downtown Orlando. About 50 people met in a park in downtown Jackson, Miss., carrying signs calling for "Health Care Not Warfare." Some made more considerable commitments to try to get their voices heard. Nearly 200 spent a cold night in tents in Grand Circus Park in Detroit, donning gloves, scarves and heavy coats to keep warm, said Helen Stockton, a 34-year-old certified midwife from Ypsilanti, and plan to remain there "as long as it takes to effect change."

"It's easy to ignore us," Stockton said. Then she referred to the financial institutions, saying, "But we are not going to ignore them. Every shiver in our bones reminds us of why we are here." Hundreds more converged near the Michigan's Capitol in Lansing with the same message, the Lansing State Journal reported.Rallies drew young and old, laborers and retirees. In Pittsburgh, marchers also included parents with children in strollers and even a doctor. The peaceful crowd of 1,500 to 2,000 stretched for two or three blocks.

"I see our members losing jobs. People are angry," said Janet Hill, 49, who works for the United Steelworkers, which she said hosted a sign-making event before the march.Retired teacher Albert Siemsen of Milwaukee said at a demonstration there that he'd grown angry watching school funding get cut at the same time that banks and corporations gained more influence in government. The 81-year-old wants to see tighter Wall Street regulation. Around him, protesters held signs reading, "Keep your corporate hands off my government," and "Mr. Obama, Tear Down That Wall Street."Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick visited protesters in Boston's Dewey Square for the first time. He said that after walking through the camp, he better understands the range of views and was sympathetic to concerns about unemployment, health care and the influence of money in politics.And in Denver, about 1,000 people came to a rally in downtown Denver to support the movement.
___
Associated Press writers Kevin Begos in Pittsburgh, Eric Tucker in Washington, Jay Lindsay in Boston, Corey Williams in Detroit, Dinesh Ramde in Milwaukee and Jack Elliott Jr. in Jackson, Mississippi, Charmaine Noronha in Toronto, and Colleen Long, David B. Caruso and AP Radio correspondent Martin Di Caro in New York contributed to this report.

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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we chased off Ded. Sad

So my sister has been volunteering at the medical tent at Occupy Portland. We even had an Occupy Bellingham... which was really more of a Walk Through Bellingham Expressing Solidarity of Purpose with Those Who are Occupying Sites Elsewhere, but that's hard to put on a sign.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
I know right? Fuckin' Sam.


I can't hear you over the sound of how ungodly rich I am. Would you like a dixie cup to collect your tears?
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Sam



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeD CHiKn wrote:
Snorri wrote:
I don't understand.


What's not to understand?

I see people abusing the welfare system everyday. It's tiring.

And I'm curious to know which group in this protest I would sit.


You would sit in the welfare reformers group, but considering that welfare cheating is actually remarkably low on the list of abuses that are fiscally concerning (welfare is usually pretty well-regulated) it would mostly be filled by people who just want to dismantle forms of welfare, so
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Him



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Such lovely people thos 1%ers
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