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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Lots of mainstream bands, no longer signed to independent labels, are still described as "indie" the whole world over.


Name 5 that originated in the U.S.

Quote:
I see your point, because you clearly don't enjoy people describing something as a "genre" when you have a clearly defined idea of what a genre is i.e. something that sounds similar or as a unique identifier.


Yeah, I do enjoy accurate, precise use of language.

Quote:
However, how can you explain that when Gucci says she likes indie music, I know I will like the same sort of music as she does, when much of it won't be on an independent label at all?


Because you both misuse indie in the same way.

Turn the question around: how can you explain that when Gucci and you say you both like indie music, I don't know what you're talking about? Keep in mind that this is a serious question: I'm not being facetious or playing devil's advocate.

Quote:
But it adds nothing to it? As the difference between "indie" rock and "normal" rock is the money the record label has. This does not affect the music, since it would be a genre if it did.
So you draw a vague line based on your definition of major?


No, see, indie rock is a genre. Indie is not. And because indie rock is a genre, there are certain qualities associated with it: raw, underproduced sound, frequently controversional/charged lyrics, etc. etc. etc.
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10877
Location: hiding the decline.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrew wrote:

Quote:
But it adds nothing to it? As the difference between "indie" rock and "normal" rock is the money the record label has. This does not affect the music, since it would be a genre if it did.
So you draw a vague line based on your definition of major?


No, see, indie rock is a genre. Indie is not. And because indie rock is a genre, there are certain qualities associated with it: raw, underproduced sound, frequently controversional/charged lyrics, etc. etc. etc.


But aren't those same qualities associated with all indie music?
And wouldn't that make it just as likely a classifier as "rock" for the same music? With rock you associate things like: guitarsolo's, raw voices, lyrics about love and drugs, etc. And with indie you associate things like: underproduced sound, controversional lyrics, and so on.
Therefore, Indie would be a much as a genre as Rock.
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trustedfaith



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3363
Location: My own little world...

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's cute when Andrew gets anal retentive. Very Happy *ducks*
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Xilonen



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 465
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

while i can sympathize with andrew in his valient attempt to make language stand still, unfortunately, the masses ultimately get to define their terminology. this is why we've had to revise the dictionary over the years, and why it now contains the word "d'oh!"

Last edited by Xilonen on Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Marik



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1234

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not true - despite popular belief, indie is not a scene. ...

The Wikipedia article linked backs me up completely:


I cannae' agree with you at all, good sir!

Surely you noted that the article was "Indie (Music)" and that it linked to Indie (Culture) -- which seems, actually, to be backing my claim of word-morph up completely.

Quote:
Today, the word is most often associated with the subculture which is defined by its associated music, fashion, behavior and beliefs.


Anyway. I will have a hard time disbelieving the indie scene, since I live in a place where it's outright palpable, and I have a number of friends who identify themselves with it by name.
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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Location: hiding the decline.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Xilonen wrote:
while i can sympathize with andrew in his valient attempt to make language stand still, unfortunately, the masses ultimately get to define their terminology. this is why we've had to revise the dictionary over the years, and why it now contains the word "d'oh!"


It does?


That's cool.
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Marik



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:23 pm    Post subject: how epic Reply with quote

Side mention:

I saw Modest Mouse in the indie section of two music stores recently.
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Xilonen



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 465
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
Xilonen wrote:
while i can sympathize with andrew in his valient attempt to make language stand still, unfortunately, the masses ultimately get to define their terminology. this is why we've had to revise the dictionary over the years, and why it now contains the word "d'oh!"


It does?


That's cool.


i died a little inside when that happened.
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Modest mouse?
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Marik



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1234

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:25 pm    Post subject: see it was cute because they were parodying hardcore Reply with quote

THIS SHIP IS TOTALLY SINKING

mwaanaaNweenah

mwaanaaNweenah

mwaanaaNweenah

mwaanaaNweenah

mwaanaaNweenah

mwaanaaNweenah
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Xilonen



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 465
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LISTEN TO THE SONG NOW SAMMMMMMMMM
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Marik



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 1234

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:27 pm    Post subject: i will find headphones Reply with quote

ok
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
But aren't those same qualities associated with all indie music?


Wait, what? No, absolutely not!

Xilo wrote:
while i can sympathize with andrew in his valient attempt to make language stand still, unfortunately, the masses ultimately get to define their terminology. this is why we've had to revise the dictionary over the years, and why it now contains the word "d'oh!"


And when the masses define Indie as a genre, I'll accept it as one.

They have yet to do so.

Marik wrote:
I cannae' agree with you at all, good sir!

Surely you noted that the article was "Indie (Music)" and that it linked to Indie (Culture) -- which seems, actually, to be backing my claim of word-morph up completely.


I apologize, I was unclear in my response: the Wikipedia comment was with regard to the use of Indie as a genre.

The comment about indie not being a scene has more to do with me attempting (in vain) to thwart the masses of indie kids who insist on trying to terraform a scene that no one who actually enjoys music acknowledges exists.

Quote:
Anyway. I will have a hard time disbelieving the indie scene, since I live in a place where it's outright palpable, and I have a number of friends who identify themselves with it by name.


Dude, you're talking to the guy who lives in Seattle. This city cries little indie tears - each tear avoids the major traditional paths for tears down the curvature of the face.
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Xilonen



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 465
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrew wrote:

Xilo wrote:
while i can sympathize with andrew in his valient attempt to make language stand still, unfortunately, the masses ultimately get to define their terminology. this is why we've had to revise the dictionary over the years, and why it now contains the word "d'oh!"


And when the masses define Indie as a genre, I'll accept it as one.

They have yet to do so.


i think they are. don't worry, it hurts at first, but you get used to it. Wink
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andrew



Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 4495
Location: the raging sea

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: how epic Reply with quote

Marik wrote:
Side mention:

I saw Modest Mouse in the indie section of two music stores recently.


Modest Mouse (& DCfC, and other bands who started on independent labels but later moved to major ones after developing a substantial following) tend to be problematic for those who misapply labels, but it's actually pretty easy. The bands are no longer indie: you can't be indie and be signed with Atlantic or Epic, sorry. But their music is still undeniably indie rock.
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