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2012-07-22: Contract
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Random Wanderer



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 195

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ignoring all the discussion (I don't feel like taking the time to read all of it. It always gets out of hand around here anyway), I always thought Tat intended most of the stuff he's condemning in this update to be appreciated ironically. The point being that we know all these stereotypes and behaviors aren't good, but we can still find them amusing because they're in a fictional medium that is playing on the stereotype. We aren't supposed to think of them as being a view of reality. Yet it seems as if he's telling us otherwise with this comic.

Or maybe we're supposed to apply that logic to this, too, and not take this seriously, but that's getting harder and harder lately. He's kept hammering certain things into us, making it seem like he's saying "No, I really mean it this time." It's... troubling.
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
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Location: Behind my Cintiq

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ratanx wrote:
I was kind of surprised he included the gay guy. I never thought in a million years that was Tat hating on gay men. I thought he was poking fun at Slick for being homophobic.

No worries. I don't think he was too much. I think it was to point out he over-stereotypes things, in this case, gay men aren't exactly all like the gay stereotype, but Tat starts all his characters as stereotypes. It was just a good example. It just shows he's doing all this more as a story than anything else. That he's not taking it so political and preachy. Other people on the forums we've seen just like to assume it's that way. Wink It's that he takes it lightly that he can make use that as an example. He definitely has bad examples he could have used if he were getting down on himself like people thought he was.
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ktern



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 950

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adyon wrote:
I didn't really find this strip depressing. That's the thing. I think you all read too much into this to think Tat is upset with himself or in general about something and his strips are depressing. xD


meta aside because you're right that the "cartoonist" character doesn't necessarily reflect tat's own mood, it's hard to read the last five panels as anything but a downer. i'd be surprised if you thought they were funny, except for the "fangirls" bit which is kind of offset by the bloody signature and handprint

Adyon wrote:
And it's just that. Everyone is like, "Stop doing comics I don't like or just end the comic!" Who cares that it's free right? And your argument is he should start something you won't read instead of continuing something you still will read even if you hate it...That seems like a bad idea just from a business standpoint. Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but he's equally entitled to ignore it and continue his comic how he pleases.


i think with all the bashers in here you're kind of responding by reflex, because you missed the point. maybe it's because crayven is suddenly agreeing with me. i'm not sure he got it either.

first off, if tat made a new, more serious comic, I'D READ IT. it would probably be fantastic. why are you suggesting otherwise? i've been here for ages and i haven't been going around whining about this arc. the "i want the old sinfest" crowd, on the other hand, wouldn't ever say "tat should stop drawing sinfest and make a more serious comic"

sinfest isn't a good medium for talking about major political issues. all the characters that exist are too likeable, even big D who's sort of awkwardly filling the villain role at the moment. the four-panel, text-light format makes it difficult at best to dig deep into the problems and possible solutions. the older strips and title itself, again, set a precedent for politically incorrect, black-hearted humor. there's just too much baggage.

i've seen you sticking up for basically everything tat does. me, i like his work, but i'll readily admit he's got his ups and downs. can tat do whatever he wants? no shit, of course he can. that doesn't mean he can't do it better. it also doesn't mean i can't talk about how i think he could do it better, so no need to shut people down like that
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Homeslice



Joined: 17 Jun 2012
Posts: 224
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, after reading all the comments so far...

I still don't get what this comic is supposed to be about.
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ktern wrote:
Adyon wrote:
I didn't really find this strip depressing. That's the thing. I think you all read too much into this to think Tat is upset with himself or in general about something and his strips are depressing. xD


meta aside because you're right that the "cartoonist" character doesn't necessarily reflect tat's own mood, it's hard to read the last five panels as anything but a downer. i'd be surprised if you thought they were funny, except for the "fangirls" bit which is kind of offset by the bloody signature and handprint

I think it reads more "somber" than downer. I like the way Pooch is barking at the end though. But as for humor, since they started, a lot of Sunday strips have been lacking in humor. A lot of them have had a plot oriented or simply "somber" ending.

ktern wrote:
Adyon wrote:
And it's just that. Everyone is like, "Stop doing comics I don't like or just end the comic!" Who cares that it's free right? And your argument is he should start something you won't read instead of continuing something you still will read even if you hate it...That seems like a bad idea just from a business standpoint. Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but he's equally entitled to ignore it and continue his comic how he pleases.


i think with all the bashers in here you're kind of responding by reflex, because you missed the point. maybe it's because crayven is suddenly agreeing with me. i'm not sure he got it either.

first off, if tat made a new, more serious comic, I'D READ IT. it would probably be fantastic. why are you suggesting otherwise? i've been here for ages and i haven't been going around whining about this arc. the "i want the old sinfest" crowd, on the other hand, wouldn't ever say "tat should stop drawing sinfest and make a more serious comic"

sinfest isn't a good medium for talking about major political issues. all the characters that exist are too likeable, even big D who's sort of awkwardly filling the villain role at the moment. the four-panel, text-light format makes it difficult at best to dig deep into the problems and possible solutions. the older strips and title itself, again, set a precedent for politically incorrect, black-hearted humor. there's just too much baggage.

i've seen you sticking up for basically everything tat does. me, i like his work, but i'll readily admit he's got his ups and downs. can tat do whatever he wants? no shit, of course he can. that doesn't mean he can't do it better. it also doesn't mean i can't talk about how i think he could do it better, so no need to shut people down like that

Yeah, I didn't necessarily mean just you, but this goes back a long ways on strips of people coming on threatening him on the forums that they'll stop reading if he keeps it up. Then two months later posting again to say the same thing.

I probably did read more into what you said than you meant, but if so it's because of others posting ignorant comments, but my response wasn't meant just at you. Sorry if it felt that way. My reason I defend Tat is just as an artist I know how difficult it can be to stick with the same concept for so long without deciding to switch it up a bit. He does have good and bad points. I myself don't think he's handled this arc the best he could either. But I don't see it as him being so serious about it that it warrants a serious comic. I think it's very "light-hearted" as a whole. The whole time, Glossy hasn't seemed like the "perfect dispenser of justice" as much as another flawed character with her own opinion. The times people claimed she was coming in throwing out advice, I saw it more as random jumping in the way. Part of her character. I didn't see it as she was "winning" anything. She's there at the moment to create plot, to stir up the universe, and at one point to keep Slick and Monique at ends, as the comic had been progressing to a point where they were close to getting together, which can be a death sentence to stories like this where so much of the drama comes from wanting to see the main characters together.
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Mr. Chicken



Joined: 15 Dec 2011
Posts: 79
Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So..hell owns the soul fo the creator of all that is real in Sinfest world..interesting.

What was the reason of this soul audit anyway? It ended as a simple reminder. For a moment i imagined she was going to blackmail him so he would do whatever she (or the devil) wanted. For example, eliminating the sisterhood.

Also i have to recognise the drawing, coloring and details in this strip are pretty good. The shadows in panels 11 to 14 and the blood in panel 18 are great. Also the fact that she is lifting her pinky finger as she holds the contratc is exquisite.
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1922
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

are you guys kidding me this strip is hilarious

he signed that shit in BLOOD

who the fuck even actually signs stuff in blood anymore

where'd he even GET the blood

is it his own? is it the blood of his enemies?

IS IT ACTUALLY KETCHUP?

no matter how you look at it, it's hilarious as fuck.
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ktern



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Posts: 950

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adyon wrote:
I probably did read more into what you said than you meant, but if so it's because of others posting ignorant comments, but my response wasn't meant just at you. Sorry if it felt that way. My reason I defend Tat is just as an artist I know how difficult it can be to stick with the same concept for so long without deciding to switch it up a bit. He does have good and bad points. I myself don't think he's handled this arc the best he could either. But I don't see it as him being so serious about it that it warrants a serious comic. I think it's very "light-hearted" as a whole.


gotcha. thanks for clearing that up. i'm kind of frustrated with those people too, although when they get smacked down i love reaching for the popcorn
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Hydra



Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guilt: the most pitiful reason to reform.
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Raal



Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hydra wrote:
Guilt: the most pitiful reason to reform.


Because staying ignorant is much more honorable!
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Halen



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 1883
Location: England

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wonder what he's drawing on?
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skin, obviously
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1019

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ktern wrote:
you know, something kinda occurred to me. until the sisterhood popped up (and in their case, they didn't start out this way) nobody in this comic could be considered a halfway decent role model, and honestly, this whole time i've thought that was the point


Jesus, Buddha, the Dragon, Gooo... no, God's an asshole.

Criminy if you need something more terrestrial and reachable in a way.

...Here is a thought. Nothing really bad has happened to any of these characters. Exception being the "rescue Fuchsia arc" and what ends well...

Tat has been bringing us positive messages since the beginning of the strip. Nothing to be ashamed of, dude.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17275
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adyon wrote:
I think it was to point out he over-stereotypes things, in this case, gay men aren't exactly all like the gay stereotype, but Tat starts all his characters as stereotypes.


i'd extend this point a bit. the history of sinfest has been one of evolution. look how much the characters have changed - monique from just your teen-age tease to someone who is passionate about all sorts of causes; the devil from a cartoonish figure in a cardboard booth to a sinister mastermind with a great empire; slick into a guy who at least makes attempts at forming a real relationship with women; squig has developed emotions and sensitivities beyond what you would expect from his frat-mascot orgins; there's even the whole explosion of the devil community. as Adyon says - the characters start as stereotypical, and then they start to evolve in to beings with actual character.

in a way, this reminds me of the times tat has experimented with different art styles. and it seems like there are always people complaining about how they didn't like the new style, they wanted him to go back to the old style, wah wah wah. and then the style would evolve again.

the characters are evolving. tat is evolving. maybe he's doing some soul-searching on the type of humor he used to do, probably he's doing some evolving on what he thinks is funny (even comedians do that). but i really doubt he's lost his sense of humor entirely.

this may be evolving into something closer to a graphic novel, but those can be funny as well. they just don't automatically have a punch line every 4 frames.

but not everyone likes graphic novels; "family circus" is still being published, and people who want everything to stay the Way It's Been Forever can always check that out.l
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ktern



Joined: 02 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
ktern wrote:
you know, something kinda occurred to me. until the sisterhood popped up (and in their case, they didn't start out this way) nobody in this comic could be considered a halfway decent role model, and honestly, this whole time i've thought that was the point


Jesus, Buddha, the Dragon


the dragon's an asshole, but i love him. you're pretty much right regardless, my statement was too general

i didn't mean to imply that being a bad person is glorified in sinfest, though--quite the opposite. tat has been using primarily negative examples all along, then showing that these people get what's coming to them. but since they do get their just desserts, hasn't the moral lesson been there all along?

honestly though the point was kind of nullified by today's comic anyway
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