welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

2012-07-31: Third Wave Feminism 2
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3276

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Raal wrote:
I highly doubt he's trying to impress her. Its more like he thinks he found a justification for his behavior and is now like "IN YOUR FACE".

Ok, then why is he?
Why is he trying to 'justify' his actions to jrandom person on the street, who just so happens to be female?


The same reason this forum is full of people who like to go "Now I'm not a sexist...buuuuut DUDES HAVE PROBLEMS TOOOO!!!!!!111OONE"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kylra



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Honestly, the only thing I am getting from the comic is irony. Tat is trying say the the stereotype of females in comics is often bad, yet here he is, giving us a girl with no personality whom one of the male characters is trying to impress for really no reason. The woman playing a support role to highlight the stupidity of the male character while having next to no character herself.
Quite a common female usage in a comic.

It's ironic but in a slightly different way than you think. The irony is that Squig is trying to impress the woman with his feminist credentials, which are obviously fake, but he does not realize this. Not only is this ironic in the sense of someone without muscles thinking they're a circus strongperson and doing something related they think they have succeeded at as a strongperson, but it is doubly ironic in that even the trappings of his very act is not feminist. It would be like a circus strongperson lifting a feather to impress someone with their strength and think they have succeeded, except it's even more ironically humorous in weight (if you understand feminism anyway) because of the expectation that Squig will do the very thing he has done because of socialization giving it a subtler a deeper mental contradiction in our own minds to draw upon. Assuming you don't just recoil from it or try your best to do no thinking about it anyway.

I wouldn't say Curly is in a support role here per se. This kind of comic is part of one of her primary motivations. As well, both characters are being used together to make a statement outside of just each character's personality and story.
Raal wrote:
I highly doubt he's trying to impress her. Its more like he thinks he found a justification for his behavior and is now like "IN YOUR FACE".

It's both at the same time imo. He's trying to "impress" her with his newer = better "feminism" to show her wrong and thus try to justify his behavior from the moral quandary he was facing that she brought to him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kylra wrote:

It's ironic but in a slightly different way than you think. The irony is that Squig is trying to impress the woman with his feminist credentials, which are obviously fake, but he does not realize this. Not only is this ironic in the sense of someone without muscles thinking they're a circus strongperson and doing something related they think they have succeeded at as a strongperson, but it is doubly ironic in that even the trappings of his very act is not feminist. It would be like a circus strongperson lifting a feather to impress someone with their strength and think they have succeeded, except it's even more ironically humorous in weight (if you understand feminism anyway) because of the expectation that Squig will do the very thing he has done because of socialization giving it a subtler a deeper mental contradiction in our own minds to draw upon. Assuming you don't just recoil from it or try your best to do no thinking about it anyway.
It's not "ironic" in that way because that's not what 'irony 'means. Squig being oblivious to his own stupidity while it is painfully obvious to everyone else is not -in anyway- ironic for this comic; it's expected.

However, I agree with everything else you said here, except the part implying I did not already know that was what was happening.
Kylra wrote:

I wouldn't say Curly is in a support role here per se. This kind of comic is part of one of her primary motivations. As well, both characters are being used together to make a statement outside of just each character's personality and story.
If we are talking solely about character development, she is in a support role for this comic.

She is -however- certainly acting "true to form." Or at least, true to the little of her form we know her: Classic straightman, stoic, resolute, and humorless.
_________________
A MtG Webcomic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kylra



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
It's not "ironic" in that way because that's not what 'irony 'means. Squig being oblivious to his own stupidity while it is painfully obvious to everyone else is not -in anyway- ironic for this comic; it's expected.

That just means the irony is expected.
Quote:
If we are talking solely about character development, she is in a support role for this comic.

She is -however- certainly acting "true to form." Or at least, true to the little of her form we know her; stoic, resolute, and humorless.

If that's the criteria, I'm not sure how this qualifies as character development for Squig either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kylra wrote:
Lich Mong wrote:
It's not "ironic" in that way because that's not what 'irony 'means. Squig being oblivious to his own stupidity while it is painfully obvious to everyone else is not -in anyway- ironic for this comic; it's expected.

That just means the irony is expected.
Alright, if that's how you want to play it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
Now that we have the definition of the word out of the way, explain to me how the pig's actions in this comic fulfills it.

Quote:

If that's the criteria, I'm not sure how this qualifies as character development for Squig either.
Because he is trying to change.
Remember, this conversation we are having is a holdover from my original statement:
Lich Mong wrote:
Adyon wrote:
I swear, Squig playing foil to this girl in his own way is just perfect.
Not the word I would use.
which I still stand by. As I said, if anything, she is playing foil to him, not him her.

However, I will agree that the fact he is failing in his attempt to change makes it not much development, but we are still learning more about the pig than the girl, even if it's only a little.
_________________
A MtG Webcomic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
Kylra wrote:
Lich Mong wrote:
It's not "ironic" in that way because that's not what 'irony 'means. Squig being oblivious to his own stupidity while it is painfully obvious to everyone else is not -in anyway- ironic for this comic; it's expected.

That just means the irony is expected.
Alright, if that's how you want to play it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
Now that we have the definition of the word out of the way, explain to me how the pig's actions in this comic fulfills it.
Now that I have read the wiki page myself in it's entirety, it seems I was the one being ironic.

Oh, the irony.
_________________
A MtG Webcomic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kylra



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disagreements over what irony means tend to involve irony. It's not usually resolved quite that amusingly though!
Lich Mong wrote:
Because he is trying to change.

I think it's debatable at this point as to whether he wants to change or just wants a justification for something he thinks is bad. Right now it's kind of looking like the latter, but we'll see.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kylra wrote:
Disagreements over what irony means tend to involve irony. It's not usually resolved quite that amusingly though!
I remembered situational and verbal irony, but forgot about dramatic.
Kylra wrote:
Lich Mong wrote:
Because he is trying to change.

I think it's debatable at this point as to whether he wants to change or just wants a justification for something he thinks is bad. Right now it's kind of looking like the latter, but we'll see.
He is reading vigorously about all this on the internet.
I see him as conflicted; he WANTS to change -or at least wants to be thought of as good- but not enough to really go out of his way. Certainly, not if he does not absolutely have too. He wants validation from them so he can feel better about NOT changing.

In these comics I really more see a man debating with himself. The Sisterhood is more just sitting back and watching him self-destruct as he tries desperately to give justification when -in fact- he, himself, is not convinced. He is doing all this because -deep down- he knows he is wrong.

I understand this is all just one interpretation, but -again- the bottom line is we are learning more about the pig, not the girl.
_________________
A MtG Webcomic
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group