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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Him



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 4191
Location: On edge

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey ladies: everything about you is gross and wrong
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Him



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Related: Joe Rogan vs Jamie Kilstein on Tosh and Rape Culture:
or Joe Rogan being a massive fucking privileged little tool.

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Him



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Half an hour into Joe Rogan's "interview". I need a break.

So I listen to Jamie Kilstein response instead.
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

> listening to joe rogan at all

You got farther than I would have, comrade.
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Guest



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chastmastr wrote:
Why don't you just say, Guest, "I do believe this; I don't believe that," as simply and clearly as possible and basically chalk up any prior confusion to a failure to communicate (without ascribing the precise blame for that, to whatever degree, to either or both sides)? Kind of like rebooting a browser after too many pop-up ads.

The problem is the people that have all these opinions on other people but forgotten that well-known proverb, "those who live in glass houses should not throw stones." Which didn't occur to Sam and Shadowcell, unfortunately, as their fragile construct crashed down upon them. It didn't hurt them miraculously, except for their minds which suffered permanent scars. A sad fate, their only purpose in life now is to act smug on the internet, accusing other people of the Dunning-Kruger effect in arguments they think they have a clue about, with a demeanor of elitism, while the underside of their rug grows bigger and bigger. The problem is also the victims of their strained mental gymnastics are people like me, who incessantly wonder what the blazes they're going on about and getting the tired old "why don't you figure it out for yourself?" excuse. Not to mention that most of their scorn are due to their own false interpretations. It's kind of ridiculous that they shouldn't expect the same in return.

But to abandon metaphors for a moment. I have said what I believe. Many times. Clearly. Clarified it again and again and again. Simplified it to the point where only toddlers would have trouble understanding it. Which wouldn't be a problem if they were toddlers, where you know they wouldn't be stupid on purpose. They're not toddlers. They're grown adults. They also don't suffer a mental deficiency from imaginary glass shards to the brain. Then we have Willem, our self-proclaimed moral arbiter of the forum, who believes he has the right to judge who are or aren't horrible people, and who should or shouldn't use the word 'cunt.' (Unapologetically used to be his catchphrase until a year ago.) So in conclusion: Fuck 'em.

--
Bart wrote:
The summary would be the focus on attacking feminists/feminism (I know you're saying that you make a distinction, I'll get to that later) and the outright refusal to acknowledge problems of sexism in your favourite subcultures/groups (gaming and atheism) and the rather aggressive responses whenever they get brought up.

Now back to this, which I said I would address. (Don't worry, I'm not out of this yet.) To be frank, I attacked Dworkin. Yes, I said feminism had been hijacked -- sorry about that -- but other than that, it was one person. Then I've always said that feminism is a good thing. (Yeah, contrary to popular belief, I've never actually chided feminism in any way. Fancy that.) As for outright refusing to acknowledge sexism in my so-called 'favourite subculture/group'... well, that's funny, because I haven't done that either. I haven't once said there's no sexism in gaming communities or in atheist communities (nor have I said it in this thread, which you say you've read), I've objected to the collective judging. Generalisation. Why shouldn't I? I've even defended the honour of Muslims once or twice for the spurious claim they're all violent, irrational and would cut your head off soon as look at you. As strange as that sounds, to boot I was called an apologist once or twice (that's being modest) because seemingly the only times I joined the discussion was when they went on about Muslims. (I still haven't learned my lesson, it seems.) But you're right. I should be less aggressive when it comes to generalisations. (Like when Willem said gamers are all horrible people, or when Jen McCreight said the atheist community is nothing but a bunch of privileged and entitled heterosexual white men*. Doesn't deserve aggressive responses. Slap on the wrist at best, right?)

*and cisgendered (meaning they believe they should act a certain way because they are men) and able-bodied (whatever that means... my guess, sexually, but it could be anything). Which is funny, because I'm pretty sure that Shadowcell said that feminists don't do that kind of thing. Let me see if I can find it.

dunning kruger wrote:
feminists don't distinguish between pretty men and short men and fat men and blond men

... but they do distinguish between "middle-class, white, cisgender, heterosexual and able-bodied" men. Ponce.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6108
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm pretty sure you're not really so stupid as to not understand these points. you just ignore them and claim that they mean otherwise, knowing that what you are saying is false.

which makes you a liar, plain and simple.

it also means that, since you are arguing with a construct of your own creation to which no one has subscribed and for which no one has argued, you are, yes, wait for it, here it comes

strawmanning

it's like ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife

of course, now i've made the mistake of actually trying to engage the guy who is literally ten times as bad as Thy ever was and now he'll start shitting out strawmen all over the place and it will be just terrible, just terrible
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

incidentally, ChastMastr, that whole paragraph of invective right there? that is exactly how Guest operates. he tells you that he's been "quite clear," "many times," and insists that he's so misunderstood and persecuted and everyone else is just stupid, but he doesn't actually tell you what his point is about which he's being so clear and misunderstood. and if you look back through this whole thread, you'll find that more often than not, he doesn't really have a point and the whole course of the argument is trying to figure out what the fuck he's actually saying. the only thing that is clear is that he thinks we're all idiots. it's not very clear what he thinks about anything else. and any attempt you make to try to drag his position out of him will meet with the same bitter failure it has met with when everyone else tried to talk to him.
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Guest



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 2178

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
of course, now i've made the mistake of actually trying to engage the guy who is literally ten times as bad as Thy ever was and now he'll start shitting out strawmen all over the place and it will be just terrible, just terrible


Of course you don't know what a strawman is or even means, because that shit you just wrote? A fucking strawman!

All that talk about not being a hypocrite. Wasted.

Quote:
The problem is also the victims of their strained mental gymnastics are people like me, who incessantly wonder what the blazes they're going on about and getting the tired old "why don't you figure it out for yourself?" excuse. Not to mention that most of their scorn are due to their own false interpretations. It's kind of ridiculous that they shouldn't expect the same in return.


And what do you write in return?

Quote:
incidentally, ChastMastr, that whole paragraph of invective right there? that is exactly how Guest operates. he tells you that he's been "quite clear," "many times," and insists that he's so misunderstood and persecuted and everyone else is just stupid, but he doesn't actually tell you what his point is about which he's being so clear and misunderstood. and if you look back through this whole thread, you'll find that more often than not, he doesn't really have a point and the whole course of the argument is trying to figure out what the fuck he's actually saying. the only thing that is clear is that he thinks we're all idiots. it's not very clear what he thinks about anything else. and any attempt you make to try to drag his position out of him will meet with the same bitter failure it has met with when everyone else tried to talk to him.


Brilliant. Yeah. You really wrote that.

Before accusing someone of 'invectives', maybe you should sweep in front of your own door first, you numpty? Especially when the invective is that I say I've been "quite clear" and "many times" while not elucidating, which sounds like, oh, every fucking time you've done it, you insufferable prat. Tell you what: I'll be willing to go back and make my arguments absolutely clear for you (so there's no chance of confusion anywhere), if you're willing to go back and make it absolutely clear where I haven't. Sound good? Or we could simply conclude it by saying we're both stubborn morons and leave it at that. But back to the important subject, Shadowcell. I thought feminists didn't (specifically) distinguish between classes and gender and sexual orientation? What gives? Could it be an isolated case? I'm pretty sure I've seen some feminists make this specific distinction before, but I have to check on that to really be sure. Should I do that and come back to you? Should we both do it and then pool our resources?
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12300
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SHUT UP
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6108
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if Guest really did have a point surely it wouldn't be too hard for him to, oh, i dunno, link to it or quote it--his actual point, that is, not yet another paragraph where he pats himself on the back for being a victim--instead of, y'know--

wait

"numpty"?
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
SHUT UP
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6108
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

but i have to know what "numpty" means

EDIT: oh, so it's the Scots' fault

okay, carry on
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Guest



Joined: 15 Aug 2006
Posts: 2178

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
if Guest really did have a point surely it wouldn't be too hard for him to, oh, i dunno, link to it or quote it--his actual point, that is, not yet another paragraph where he pats himself on the back for being a victim--instead of, y'know--

wait

"numpty"?

Quote:
The problem is also the victims of their strained mental gymnastics are people like me, who incessantly wonder what the blazes they're going on about and getting the tired old "why don't you figure it out for yourself?" excuse. Not to mention that most of their scorn are due to their own false interpretations. It's kind of ridiculous that they shouldn't expect the same in return.

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Him



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 4191
Location: On edge

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am torn. Part of me wants to engage Guest, but he has proven time and time again he does not understand and does not want to understand what the hell he is talking about. Why he insists on posting in this thread at all is interesting, but you know, as I said, it has to do with his hatred of feminists. Enough about that.

So Jamie Kilstein makes a pretty good explanation of rape culture you guys.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6558

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agh Him, I've been at work this whole time you've been posting podcasts and I really really want to listen to them but work has also been kinds of heinous so I'm not sure I can handle getting upset about stuff.

Conundrums.

Also my coworkers are talking about how they want to give up the right to vote to become at home moms and I honestly cannot tell you how angry they are making me. I have my headset on and I'm just ignoring them because if I don't I might get myself fired.
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