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Oct. 13: Return of the God Hand!
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Tank



Joined: 20 Sep 2010
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:

So either you can think of God actually giving strict rules in the Old Testament to keep his chosen people from dying, or you can see a big elaborate hoax to keep the people from questioning. Either way says much about yourself.


Isn't it a bit of a false dichotomy to suggest that you can only interpret the Old Testament as the Written Word of Godô or as some sort of Machiavellian wet dream?
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tank wrote:
Rothide wrote:

So either you can think of God actually giving strict rules in the Old Testament to keep his chosen people from dying, or you can see a big elaborate hoax to keep the people from questioning. Either way says much about yourself.


Isn't it a bit of a false dichotomy to suggest that you can only interpret the Old Testament as the Written Word of Godô or as some sort of Machiavellian wet dream?


Addendum: Or any shades of grey you have in between the two extreme ideas. Still says a lot about yourself.
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
If it was a divinely inspired guide to survival it would have included a hell of a lot more useful information instead of just stuff that stone age idiots had already figured out.


Oh hey people who are eating this are getting sick, maybe we shouldn't eat it, durhuurrr.


What about the people that ate the meat and got sick, and thought it was some other food they ate because it didn't affect them, I mean tapeworms (the most common pork parasite) doesn't really affect you until you get really ill and then it does and Alien on your intestinal walls, and that usually happens weeks after eating the meat.
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Ember778



Joined: 02 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
If it was a divinely inspired guide to survival it would have included a hell of a lot more useful information instead of just stuff that stone age idiots had already figured out.


Oh hey people who are eating this are getting sick, maybe we shouldn't eat it, durhuurrr.


What about the people that ate the meat and got sick, and thought it was some other food they ate because it didn't affect them, I mean tapeworms (the most common pork parasite) doesn't really affect you until you get really ill and then it does and Alien on your intestinal walls, and that usually happens weeks after eating the meat.


Trichinosis sets in faster than that usually. While the tapeworm itself might not give symptoms if the larva have trichinosis then you'll start getting rashes a few days after eating the meat.

Also the diets of these people were pretty poor most likely. It's doubtful that they got a wide variety of food.
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trustedfaith



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ember778 wrote:
Trichinosis sets in faster than that usually. While the tapeworm itself might not give symptoms if the larva have trichinosis then you'll start getting rashes a few days after eating the meat.

Also the diets of these people were pretty poor most likely. It's doubtful that they got a wide variety of food.


Tell us more all-knowing one. Rolling Eyes
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Ember778



Joined: 02 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

trustedfaith wrote:
Ember778 wrote:
Trichinosis sets in faster than that usually. While the tapeworm itself might not give symptoms if the larva have trichinosis then you'll start getting rashes a few days after eating the meat.

Also the diets of these people were pretty poor most likely. It's doubtful that they got a wide variety of food.


Tell us more all-knowing one. Rolling Eyes


http://www.cdhd.idaho.gov/CD/public/factsheets/trichinosis.htm
http://www.southernnevadahealthdistrict.org/health-topics/trichinosis.php
http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/trichinellosis/gen_info/faqs.html

"abdominal symptoms appear 1-2 days after infection"

Oh I'm sorry did I not fit in with all the other people around here who try and correct every small detail? Did something suddenly change overnight?
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Irony



Joined: 14 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
If it was a divinely inspired guide to survival it would have included a hell of a lot more useful information instead of just stuff that stone age idiots had already figured out.


Oh hey people who are eating this are getting sick, maybe we shouldn't eat it, durhuurrr.


What about the people that ate the meat and got sick, and thought it was some other food they ate because it didn't affect them, I mean tapeworms (the most common pork parasite) doesn't really affect you until you get really ill and then it does and Alien on your intestinal walls, and that usually happens weeks after eating the meat.

Quick question: Why do you assume people back then were stupid?

They weren't, they were every bit as intelligent as we are, and they had the resources to figure out what made them sick, even if the task is non-trivial. They also lacked the resources to find out why those things made them sick, so a prohibition of food prone to making people sick is the most likely outcome.
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Oneponytoruleall



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need more apples in my diet...

and bacon.

Maybe bacon-wrapped candied apples.
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Succubus1982



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
... Monique, do you really wanna see whats truly good and evil?


She already has Patriarchy-vision. Whats the diff?
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Irony wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
If it was a divinely inspired guide to survival it would have included a hell of a lot more useful information instead of just stuff that stone age idiots had already figured out.


Oh hey people who are eating this are getting sick, maybe we shouldn't eat it, durhuurrr.


What about the people that ate the meat and got sick, and thought it was some other food they ate because it didn't affect them, I mean tapeworms (the most common pork parasite) doesn't really affect you until you get really ill and then it does and Alien on your intestinal walls, and that usually happens weeks after eating the meat.

Quick question: Why do you assume people back then were stupid?

They weren't, they were every bit as intelligent as we are, and they had the resources to figure out what made them sick, even if the task is non-trivial. They also lacked the resources to find out why those things made them sick, so a prohibition of food prone to making people sick is the most likely outcome.


Well, yeah. I'd phrase it as, "We're every bit as stupid as they were," but the basic idea's the same. We have better tools than they had, but not enough generations have passed for any difference in baseline intelligence to be an insurmountable barrier for them.

If your holy book had actually revealed anything significant about the world that people hadn't already figured out, you'd have a better case for it.
Also if most of the idiotic shit was left out. And the heinous shit. And the conflations of power with morality.

Succubus1982 wrote:

Rothide wrote:

... Monique, do you really wanna see what's truly good and evil?



She already has Patriarchy-vision. What's the diff?


The difference is that the dark side has cookies.

Also that the patriarchy is an abstraction for actual problems, whereas good/evil in this context are arbitrarily defined "absolutes," which are mostly concerned with obedience to an impossibly powerful being under threat of divine retribution, rather than a desire to make and sustain a functional, stable, and pleasant society.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holocauxt wrote:

Oh, and uh, let's not get into a Dudebro vs. Feminist debate about this, mmm'kay?


meep.

I uh
uhhh
I still don't label myself as a Feminist, so it doesn't count.

maybe
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tricksterson



Joined: 18 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
SA_Penguin wrote:
When told to do (or not do) something, most people will want to know "Why?"

If you don't know, or want to shut down the talking, the quickie answer is "Because God says so".

If you are wandering in the desert and your followers are getting sick from eating parasite-ridden pork, saying God Forbids Pork will save lives. But it promotes ignorance. Once you know WHY that pork was bad, you can set up a piggery and raise pigs suitable for human consumption.

The trailblazers that questioned the edicts of God - that's where Monique is now. You go, girl!


Or you know, there is a God and he did give these edicts so people wouldn't DIE.

I mean after they learned how to properly cook and raise animals, God pretty said so much to Peter, Acts 10:9-17 has peter having a "dream" from God that he could go out and eat any animal that stood before him (the common and the uncleaned) peter said he was not allowed to, but God replies (what I have cleansed, thou shalt not call common) course this could also be seen to a non believer as the church understanding that people can raise these animals well enough now and cook them thoroughly to not cause themselves to get sick and die, and wrote that.

So either you can think of God actually giving strict rules in the Old Testament to keep his chosen people from dying, or you can see a big elaborate hoax to keep the people from questioning. Either way says much about yourself.


Or you can say that the entry in Acts was Christianity's way of opening up a new customer base. As for it being the Word of God, when you come up with evidence , let me know.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
Irony wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
If it was a divinely inspired guide to survival it would have included a hell of a lot more useful information instead of just stuff that stone age idiots had already figured out.


Oh hey people who are eating this are getting sick, maybe we shouldn't eat it, durhuurrr.


What about the people that ate the meat and got sick, and thought it was some other food they ate because it didn't affect them, I mean tapeworms (the most common pork parasite) doesn't really affect you until you get really ill and then it does and Alien on your intestinal walls, and that usually happens weeks after eating the meat.

Quick question: Why do you assume people back then were stupid?

They weren't, they were every bit as intelligent as we are, and they had the resources to figure out what made them sick, even if the task is non-trivial. They also lacked the resources to find out why those things made them sick, so a prohibition of food prone to making people sick is the most likely outcome.


Well, yeah. I'd phrase it as, "We're every bit as stupid as they were," but the basic idea's the same. We have better tools than they had, but not enough generations have passed for any difference in baseline intelligence to be an insurmountable barrier for them.

But what about changes in IQ? People all over the world are testing higher and higher... they actually have to frequently recalibrate IQ tests to new norms in order to keep the curve from moving.

I have no idea why this is (although Ulric Neisser edited a book about it, and everyone should read everything he ever wrote), I'm just tossing it out there.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think most of the things that IQ tests test for are at least to some extent learnable skillsets.

People are getting better at pattern recognition etc etc

Like, when I was really young, I got much higher scores on such tests than I think I would get now. I got an early start on developing those skillsets because my parents were awesome, but now other people my age have had a chance to catch up. Probably. I don't actually know. I haven't taken any such tests recently.

I think people are probably getting smarter on baseline intelligence as well, but that's a much slower process.


As far as the actual point I had been addressing goes, it doesn't take very much intelligence to notice that a particular food is making people sick, and of course the Bible says nothing about that, or why it might have been making people sick, it just says, "Nu. Don't eat pork. Pigs are UNCLEAAAAN WITH THEIR CLOVEN HOOVES 'N SHIT OOOO SCARY CLOVEN HOOVES AND ALSO A HOOVEN ANIMAL THAT DOESN'T CHEW CUD AAAGH NUUUU."
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Last edited by Heretical Rants on Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are different types of IQ tests. Some test for fluid intelligence, which doesn't appear related to education directly (though there may be some interaction). Crystalized intelligence, like the type of IQ test we use in the US, is affected by education (it tests vocabulary, math, etc). The first link describes the difficulty of pinpointing what's causing the intergenerational increases. A dude named Flynn has been studying it for 30 years and still can't explain it.

EDIT: But, depending on how far back the gains go, it's possible Biblical writers would have been mentally retarded on today's IQ tests.
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