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2012 U.S. Presidential Debates
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. What with all those juvenile delinquents, fornicators, The Gays, New Age cults replacing Family Values with man-hating Feminism, reverse discrimination, falling necklines and rising hemlines, beatniks, new math, declining enlistment rates, prophylactics, pocket calculators, kids growing up in the city...
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck Lorre's vanity card he self censored from last week's big bang theory:

Quote:
CHUCK LORRE PRODUCTIONS, #397

CENSORED BY ME

What does it say about us when we are simultaneously pro-life and pro AK-47's? What does it say about us when God's will would allow a rapist to ask for shared custody and child support payments? What does it say about us when a black guy's in charge and we say things like "it's time to take America back"? What does it say about us when we think the institution of marriage is threatened by gay people who love each other, but not by idiotic game shows like "The Bachelor"? What does it say about us when we export democracy with Hellfire missiles, then restrict the right to vote here? What does it say about us when we build nuclear submarines to defend against exploding vests? What does it say about us when we think a guy who doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, keeps his money offshore, stubs his toe and says "H-E-double hockey sticks" and wears magical underwear can feel our pain? What does it say about us when we demand less government and more FEMA? What does it say about us when we completely forgot the colossal shit storm we were in four years ago?

The answer, my friends, is not blowing in the wind.

The answer is, "We are fucking crazy."

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Kenshiro



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willem wrote:
Would you consider 'a good feeling knowing I've done something right and/or helped another human being' be an acceptable answer to you?


Absolutely. I have my own limits on how far I'll go with that, but definitely yes. In fact I personally find those times are often some of the most rewarding ones. As long as they're voluntary.
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Adyon



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
pocket calculators

Hell, I think those things are the root of all evil! =D

Darqcyde wrote:
Chuck Lorre's vanity card he self censored from last week's big bang theory:

Quote:
CHUCK LORRE PRODUCTIONS, #397

CENSORED BY ME

What does it say about us when we are simultaneously pro-life and pro AK-47's? What does it say about us when God's will would allow a rapist to ask for shared custody and child support payments? What does it say about us when a black guy's in charge and we say things like "it's time to take America back"? What does it say about us when we think the institution of marriage is threatened by gay people who love each other, but not by idiotic game shows like "The Bachelor"? What does it say about us when we export democracy with Hellfire missiles, then restrict the right to vote here? What does it say about us when we build nuclear submarines to defend against exploding vests? What does it say about us when we think a guy who doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, keeps his money offshore, stubs his toe and says "H-E-double hockey sticks" and wears magical underwear can feel our pain? What does it say about us when we demand less government and more FEMA? What does it say about us when we completely forgot the colossal shit storm we were in four years ago?

The answer, my friends, is not blowing in the wind.

The answer is, "We are fucking crazy."

The sad part of this? The biggest thing I heard out of it was people from the Bachelor getting all upset and condemning him for calling their show "idiotic". Whut? Seriously? I guess if you do that show, your emotional maturity must be similar.

As for the actual comment, pretty sweet, other than there's a couple things I could pick on. The main thing was, I don't think the not drinking, smoking, or swearing is a good reason to put up as un-relatability, especially when you talk about off-shore accounts in the same sentence. Of course, he's just basically mocking his religion as a Mormon. Feels like undermining yourself. You talk about racial prejudice being bad then instantly promote religious prejudice. Granted, it's just an opinion piece, so he's allowed to do that, but I think he could have said more by saying less.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Lorre's point is more about Romney being out of touch with your "average American", and he's going under the assumptions that most Americans have at least some form of vice, don't have money in offshore accounts, and do use profanity. I don't think it's necessarily a stab at Romney's religious views per se.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what would really settle this "ability to connect with the common man" thing, in fact maybe even the election itself, would be a televised game of the presidential candidates playing Card Against Humanity.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenshiro wrote:
Not fanatically, no. Especially since I've never read her work. I DO think that asking 'what's in it for me' is a reasonable and/or acceptable question to ask when going through life, but I won't look down on people who don't; it's your right to live however you want.


how about, "the value of my house won't be impacted by the banks foreclosing on all my neighbors"? or "i won't be surrounded by sick people who can't afford health insurance, and my health insurance/health costs won't be increased because i have to pay for indigent people getting health care in the emergency room"? maybe "i won't have to worry about the state raising fees on everything, because the wealthiest 1% are now paying at least the same tax rate i am"? or "i don't have to worry about tripping over retirees who are living on the street because their social security got cut"?

no man is an island, my friend. unless you are rich enough to buy one and hire a security force to keep the little people at bay.
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Adyon



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
I think Lorre's point is more about Romney being out of touch with your "average American", and he's going under the assumptions that most Americans have at least some form of vice, don't have money in offshore accounts, and do use profanity. I don't think it's necessarily a stab at Romney's religious views per se.

Yeah, but just because someone abstains from vices doesn't negate their ability to relate to some one. (Not that Romney really likely does from other vices.) A couple of the best people I've ever known have been the types who abstained from pretty much everything to the point they were super innocent. They were truly compassionate and caring people. And I think he did mean to take a shot at him being a Mormon, because he made the "magical underwear" remark.

I just think the point of him having off-shore accounts and an elitist attitude are what make him out of touch with people more than his personal lifestyle choices. I find the other points to not be consequential, because I know many people who fit those descriptions that I'd never call out of touch.

Because when it comes down to it, do we care if he's out of touch in that he doesn't drink or smoke? It's not like he's going to enact any policies on the matter. Especially the "H-E-double hockey sticks" part. What's that going to keep him out of? At least the straight Mormon part could make us believe he might enact some sort of a controlling instigation of religion (even if it's also pretty much a 0% chance of that).

On the other hand, having so much money and having been lucky about becoming successful make him unrelated, because he seems to think so little of anyone who isn't a success.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
I think Lorre's point is more about Romney being out of touch with your "average American", and he's going under the assumptions that most Americans have at least some form of vice, don't have money in offshore accounts, and do use profanity. I don't think it's necessarily a stab at Romney's religious views per se.


this is one of the things i don't get about this election. given the number of people who seem to choose a candidate by which one they would more like to have a beer with - how can romney even be in the running? i mean, seriously, you compare a guy who doesn't drink with one who makes his own beer* - where is there even a question?



*if obama does lose, i hope his next career is taking his white house beer national, because it sounds pretty tasty.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adyon wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
I think Lorre's point is more about Romney being out of touch with your "average American", and he's going under the assumptions that most Americans have at least some form of vice, don't have money in offshore accounts, and do use profanity. I don't think it's necessarily a stab at Romney's religious views per se.

Yeah, but just because someone abstains from vices doesn't negate their ability to relate to some one. (Not that Romney really likely does from other vices.) A couple of the best people I've ever known have been the types who abstained from pretty much everything to the point they were super innocent. They were truly compassionate and caring people. And I think he did mean to take a shot at him being a Mormon, because he made the "magical underwear" remark.

I just think the point of him having off-shore accounts and an elitist attitude are what make him out of touch with people more than his personal lifestyle choices. I find the other points to not be consequential, because I know many people who fit those descriptions that I'd never call out of touch.

Because when it comes down to it, do we care if he's out of touch in that he doesn't drink or smoke? It's not like he's going to enact any policies on the matter. Especially the "H-E-double hockey sticks" part. What's that going to keep him out of? At least the straight Mormon part could make us believe he might enact some sort of a controlling instigation of religion (even if it's also pretty much a 0% chance of that).

On the other hand, having so much money and having been lucky about becoming successful make him unrelated, because he seems to think so little of anyone who isn't a success.


Um, you're wrong in a lot of ways here. Many people (not implying a majority or anything) vote based on how much they think a candidate is like themselves. But more importantly, your missing part of the quote by Lorre:

Quote:
What does it say about us when we think a guy who doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, keeps his money offshore, stubs his toe and says "H-E-double hockey sticks" and wears magical underwear can feel our pain?


He's talking about how Romney has no clue about the struggles ordinary people go through and suffer through. I'm too lazy to go into a full blown literary analysis of this, but trust me, you're not really getting what Lorre is saying here. If you're breaking down the individual elements of the above quoted sentence then you're missing the overall meaning behind what Lorre is saying; the sum of his statement is greater than the parts.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 12:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adyon wrote:
he did mean to take a shot at him being a Mormon, because he made the "magical underwear" remark.



As well he fucking should...Mormonism is a fucking batshit crazy cult that only gets half the nod it does because one they're super secretive about what their doctrine really is and two they retcon their religion constantly.
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Adyon



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Um, you're wrong in a lot of ways here. Many people (not implying a majority or anything) vote based on how much they think a candidate is like themselves. But more importantly, your missing part of the quote by Lorre:

Quote:
What does it say about us when we think a guy who doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, keeps his money offshore, stubs his toe and says "H-E-double hockey sticks" and wears magical underwear can feel our pain?


He's talking about how Romney has no clue about the struggles ordinary people go through and suffer through. I'm too lazy to go into a full blown literary analysis of this, but trust me, you're not really getting what Lorre is saying here. If you're breaking down the individual elements of the above quoted sentence then you're missing the overall meaning behind what Lorre is saying; the sum of his statement is greater than the parts.

Well, actually if we'd been saying that way, I'd agree with the idea that most people would have a hard time relating to HIM based on his ways.

I was already arguing the "feel our pain" part. I'm saying I know plenty of people who keep themselves from any of those things and still able to feel the pain of others just fine. I'm saying it's a bad argument that amounts to because someone is different, they can't relate to others. It's as judgemental and narrow-minded as saying a Hispanic can't be in charge of others because he's got his own beliefs and culture and can't relate to others. That type of logical fallacy just pisses me off.

Also. I'm not saying that his overall message is bad. I'm saying that parts seemed un-necessary. I agree Romney is un relate-able in the sense that he might not be able to "feel our pain", but not in those ways...It's the other stuff to me. Still, it's not a big deal. It's not like it's anything other than a guy's opinion. He's free to say what he wants. I just don't agree that it has any merit in validity for reason he will not relate to people. He's going to not relate, because he ignorantly thinks everyone's a freeloader. That's what I'm afraid of in his policies.

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Adyon wrote:
he did mean to take a shot at him being a Mormon, because he made the "magical underwear" remark.



As well he fucking should...Mormonism is a fucking batshit crazy cult that only gets half the nod it does because one they're super secretive about what their doctrine really is and two they retcon their religion constantly.

Oh that religion is definitely based on some crazy things as far as basis. I mean, obviously there's a few of those...Scientology! LOL However, it's current state is more or less a far cry from its founding and is comparable to mainstream Christian religions. Now, that's up to others how much you do or don't find those crazy to begin with, but I will stick up for Mormons. I've known quite a few, and frankly, I've yet to get to know one personally I disliked. One I knew who was pretty devout played Sweeney Todd as counterpart to my wife playing Mrs. Lovett in a local theater's production...needless to say I got to know him REALLY well over the time and after (as we all hung out). So, as founded or unfounded as their beliefs may or may not be, I'll defend the religion, because it obviously hasn't made the people I've met into anything besides normal people who don't drink or smoke. =P (Not that I'm saying everyone will turn out that way)

I'd rather just have less judging people on superficial levels and more true looks at character. Then again, our news media would crumble if we did that.
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am okay with the media crumbling! And something much better replacing it!

Really, I am with Adyon - the dig at the magical underwear is completely unnecessary. Why add it? There is so much to dislike about Romney without even bringing any _hint_ of religion into it.

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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'll defend the religion, because it obviously hasn't made the people I've met into anything besides normal people who don't drink or smoke. =P (Not that I'm saying everyone will turn out that way)


Hm...so basically you're defending the religion based on how its adherents present themselves to outsiders.
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adyon wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
Um, you're wrong in a lot of ways here. Many people (not implying a majority or anything) vote based on how much they think a candidate is like themselves. But more importantly, your missing part of the quote by Lorre:

Quote:
What does it say about us when we think a guy who doesn't drink, doesn't smoke, keeps his money offshore, stubs his toe and says "H-E-double hockey sticks" and wears magical underwear can feel our pain?


He's talking about how Romney has no clue about the struggles ordinary people go through and suffer through. I'm too lazy to go into a full blown literary analysis of this, but trust me, you're not really getting what Lorre is saying here. If you're breaking down the individual elements of the above quoted sentence then you're missing the overall meaning behind what Lorre is saying; the sum of his statement is greater than the parts.

Well, actually if we'd been saying that way, I'd agree with the idea that most people would have a hard time relating to HIM based on his ways.

I was already arguing the "feel our pain" part. I'm saying I know plenty of people who keep themselves from any of those things and still able to feel the pain of others just fine. I'm saying it's a bad argument that amounts to because someone is different, they can't relate to others. It's as judgemental and narrow-minded as saying a Hispanic can't be in charge of others because he's got his own beliefs and culture and can't relate to others. That type of logical fallacy just pisses me off.

Also. I'm not saying that his overall message is bad. I'm saying that parts seemed un-necessary. I agree Romney is un relate-able in the sense that he might not be able to "feel our pain", but not in those ways...It's the other stuff to me. Still, it's not a big deal. It's not like it's anything other than a guy's opinion. He's free to say what he wants. I just don't agree that it has any merit in validity for reason he will not relate to people. He's going to not relate, because he ignorantly thinks everyone's a freeloader. That's what I'm afraid of in his policies.


I disagree. Many in the GOP wave around their religious devotion like a badge of honor, not bringing it up would be an injustice. Also, the fact that non-religious is the fastest growing religion is most definitely a good thing. Religion, or rather political abuse of it by those in power, is hands down the #1 cause of suffering throughout most of recorded history. Crusades, spanish inquisition, and manifest destiny, just to name a few. OR female circumcision. OR any of the literately countless ethnic cleansings perpetuated by countless religions. There are so so so so many examples.

Also your example about being hispanic is a poor one. Actually it's really bad and doesn't make any sense.

What would be more accurate is saying if you've never been a minority, or have only been a minority, your world view is definitely skewed, as in Romney's case. You need to spend time on both sides of the fence in order to know that neither side has the greener grass.
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