welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

I hope this thread kills itself (a disscussion on suicide)
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 am    Post subject: I hope this thread kills itself (a disscussion on suicide) Reply with quote

subject text that was too long to fit in designated place: Suicide: is it really selfish to those who have to go on living or is it selfish to want someone to continue living in extreme pain just because you would miss them?

Do most people regret the attempt is they live through it?

The most determining factor as to whether someone is likely to commit suicide is a past suicidal attempt. (no citations needed, I learned that it school, bitch)

What's the line in the sand between suicidal ideation and cause for concern? When a plan is developed?
_________________
Formerly Green_Finn

hey! rock bottom's not that bad
we've got glow-in-the-dark fish down here that's rad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's selfish to consider other peoples' selfishness concerning themselves a bad thing.
Suicide is usually bad, though, but not for that reason.
_________________
butts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10567
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What HR said plus: Jack Kevorkian. When I first heard about him, I was younger I didn't really understand the issue. As I got older, I was amazed at the strength and resolve the man had. Talk to anyone who works with the elderly regularly, and invariably they will tell you the hardest thing is watching their patients waste away and then eventually pass away. I don't think ending a life is easy in these kind of cases.
_________________
...if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there.
http://about.me/omardrake
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger
Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know several states had a right-to-die referendum fora terminally ill patient with something like six months to live. personally, I am completely in favor of that right (it did not appear on my state's ballot though) but I wonder about those who live in debilitating, chronic, daily, and practically continuous pain. If it was been occurring at that severity for about a decade, has ruined any chance of a successful, or even social life, and the hope the doctors can offer is that maybe in 10 or 15 years a new drug might be approved and be come available which my or may not make any difference anyway.
So I guess my point is should suicide be tolerated in non-terminal individuals who have had, who have, and will probably continue to suffer with no reprieve?
_________________
Formerly Green_Finn

hey! rock bottom's not that bad
we've got glow-in-the-dark fish down here that's rad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think so.

Personally I think I might rather experience the suffering, as long as there was still some novelty in the experience. If I was terminally ill I think I'd want to fight it out to the very end, but years and years of the same crap with no ability to create or experience anything new would probably be too much for me. Of course, it's their right to choose either way. If we don't own ourselves, then what do we own?
_________________
butts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9556

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

right-to-die/assisted suicide will be the law of the land probably by the time we are old. It's another one of those 'just a matter of time' issues where changing demographics removes any real opposition to the idea.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10799
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a professor who died a couple years ago of colon cancer. Awful story. Travelled to Mexico, came home, felt bad, wrote it off as food poisoning. When he finally visited his doctor he was diagnosed with end-stage cancer. He blogged on Psychology Today about his treatment, and his eventual decision to act under Washington's Death With Dignity Act. His feeling was that it wasn't suicide, as he wasn't choosing between life and death, but the empowerment to choose to die well and in the state of his choosing - surrounded by friends and family, at peace, not in a hospital bed unconscious and pierced with IV's, feeding tubes, and catheters. He said that it wasn't for everyone, but that just having the option gave him piece of mind.

I would argue that if we want to respect patients and family that we should allow them to die how they feel most at peace (assuming they're in their right mind and capable of making rational decisions). I've watched patients who were utterly devoid of voluntary function, ravaged by strokes so that they couldn't even blink, with feeding tubes surgically inserted into their stomach through their abdominal wall, who are kept alive artificially for years being treated like a beloved house plant. Food and water dripped into them throughout the day, eye drops applied because they couldn't even blink. I can't imagine anyone would choose that life. Offering people who have only that and pain as a future the option to die whole, to allow them to leave pleasant memories of a peaceful passing, seems far more compassionate to both the patient and the family.
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mr Gary



Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 6259
Location: Some pub in England

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Suicide, like everything in life, is something you should try at least once.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Azmoten



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 2211
Location: St. Louis

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Gary wrote:
Suicide, like everything in life, is something you should try at least once.


Having seriously attempted suicide at least once, I contest this statement.

Unless it was a joke, in which case, harharhar! hardy har! my good sir...
...
_________________
"Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."
-Solid Jackson (From Jingo, by Terry Pratchett)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9702
Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So we are _only_ addressing suicide in chronic physical conditions, not mental ones right?? Or are we saying that metal and physical pain are the same?

The only experience I have with suicide is due to mental illness. My aunt killed herself with alcohol. My adopted aunt shot herself in the head. My mom has tried in the long ago past and fights the urges pretty frequently. The idea has certainly crossed my mind. Finding a medicine that works is darn difficult. Knowing that there is another state of mind to strive for is downright impossible (which makes fighting side effects feel like it isn't worth it).

I have no problem with Death with Dignity for physical pain because we know enough about it to know if something is going to help (of course there are new drugs but again, we have a better understanding of the physical body). We have no clue about the mind and that makes me upset.

_________________
Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael


Last edited by Lasairfiona on Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:43 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10799
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how Oregon does it, but here you can only utilize euthanasia if you have a medical diagnosis of six months or less to live. There are a variety of safeguards to prevent people from pursuing it in a period of mental anguish.

I've heard statistics that as many as 50% of people with bipolar disorder attempt suicide and 15-20% succeed. It's astonishingly high. Not everyone experiences the same diagnosis in the same way, of course, and some people are ruined by it in spite of medications while others prosper. Which is, I guess, a good reason to try and prevent them from commiting suicide before they have the chance.
_________________
"Worse comes to worst, my people come first, but my tribe lives on every country on earth. Iíll do anything to protect them from hurt, the human race is what I serve." - Baba Brinkman
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oneponytoruleall



Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 3114

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: I hope this thread kills itself (a disscussion on suicid Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:
subject text that was too long to fit in designated place: Suicide: is it really selfish to those who have to go on living or is it selfish to want someone to continue living in extreme pain just because you would miss them?


There's so much hypocrisy here. People proclaim 'every human life is precious' because that's what a good person says publicly, even if they really don't give a shit because it's not their job to care. We judge the fuck out of other people and expect them to just suck it up and get over it.

Suicide is usually the result of a long painful process. It's hardwired into you to fear death and pain and to survive. It takes a lot to overcome that. It's hard to get help for it. It's very difficult for people to understand. They say a lot of things that are meant to be helpful, but are as judgmental and ignorant as fuck like 'You need to quit lying around feeling sorry for yourself and get out and find a girlfriend."

States cut funding to mental health programs very year but the average citizen thinks there is plenty of housing and medication and treatment available to people in crisis. Thus they think it is that person's choice he or she is not doing anything about his/her problem. That they're just being bums.

The question is do we really value human life or are damaged humans undesirables?

Quote:
Do most people regret the attempt is they live through it?


A lot of them regret living through the attempt. Often the illness that led up to the attempt is chronic and resists treatment. Relapse is common.

Quote:
The most determining factor as to whether someone is likely to commit suicide is a past suicidal attempt. (no citations needed, I learned that it school, bitch)


No. Some of them make sure they do it right the first time.

Quote:
What's the line in the sand between suicidal ideation and cause for concern? When a plan is developed?


People are different and they choose different methods. Sometimes the worse sign is suddenly having a good day. Why? Because it can mean they finally decided to go through with it and feel a sense of release and relief. Sometimes it is cleaning the house and getting rid of 'clutter' including things they previously loved. Sometimes it is going and having a will made out. Sometimes it is impulsive after being bullied that day. Sometimes they go out of their way to alienate people who care about them. Sometimes they are very careful to hide the signs they are thinking of suicide.


Last edited by Oneponytoruleall on Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9702
Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again:

Quote:
?? Or are we saying that metal and physical pain are the same?


Cause I can tell you, it certainly feels like they are the same. Constant physical pain even brings on clinical depression.

And just to make sure we are all clear - I am bipolar and everyone I mentioned earlier is/was bipolar. I happen to be happily medicated.

_________________
Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Oneponytoruleall



Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 3114

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
Again:

Quote:
?? Or are we saying that metal and physical pain are the same?


Cause I can tell you, it certainly feels like they are the same. Constant physical pain even brings on clinical depression.


And vice versa. Clinical depression causes physical pain. Headaches, cramping, stomach pain, nausea, grinding your teeth until you have TMJ disorders, etc.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9702
Location: I have to be somewhere? ::runs around frantically::

PostPosted: Sun Nov 11, 2012 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is that why I grind my teeth and have TMJ? Hmm. I didn't know about that particular symptom.
_________________
Before God created Las he pondered on all the aspects a woman might have, he considered which ones would look good super-inflated and which ones to leave alone.
After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> General Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 1 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group