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I hope this thread kills itself (a disscussion on suicide)
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sporko wrote:
i think thy was talking about adrenaline injections for pain, though, like lidocaine/epinephrine combinations and stuff like that.


I was never given adrenaline for pain, but during one of the inpatient pain management clinics I took part in I was put on a lidocaine drip (as one of many drugs the pumped into me) for something like an 8 or 9 day period. lidocaine is one of those drugs that is able to pass the blood/brain barrier and as an anesthetic I believe the theory they were operating on was that by anesthetizing my brain it would inhibit (or at least retard) the chronic misfiring of the nociceptors (the neurons responsible for our perception of pain). With neuropathic pain the nociceptors fire without the presence of pain causing stimuli and I guess become so accustomed to doing so that it becomes the natural state of your brain to cause pain. It is a very difficult condition to treat since you basically have to retrain the neurons to learn that not indicating the presence of of pain causing stimuli where there is none is what is normal. by using lidocaine to anesthetize the nociceptors and inhibit their firing for a long enough period of time it's hoped that they will "reset to normal". I don't know how efficacious the treatment is but it obviously didn't work for me and it is really quite unpleasant because as the lidocaine also anesthetizes the rest of your brain it makes you really dumb. I couldn't remember simple tasks like how to tie my shoes nevermind anything the least bit complicated. I developed a horrible stutter and my ability for word recall was shot to hell and had to struggle to keep my train of thought. It also caused frequent bouts of confusion along with hallucinations. it was somewhat interesting on some levels as I have a younger brother with learning disabilities and while getting degrees in psychology and social services I interned in both facilities for the mentally ill and mentally disabled (of course this was before the chronic pain and this lidocaine treatment) but it gave me what I feel to be very unique insight as to the everyday challenges that some of the patients in those facilities must have struggled with.
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sporko



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2890

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:
sporko wrote:
i think thy was talking about adrenaline injections for pain, though, like lidocaine/epinephrine combinations and stuff like that.


I was never given adrenaline for pain, but during one of the inpatient pain management clinics I took part in I was put on a lidocaine drip (as one of many drugs the pumped into me) for something like an 8 or 9 day period. lidocaine is one of those drugs that is able to pass the blood/brain barrier and as an anesthetic I believe the theory they were operating on was that by anesthetizing my brain it would inhibit (or at least retard) the chronic misfiring of the nociceptors (the neurons responsible for our perception of pain). With neuropathic pain the nociceptors fire without the presence of pain causing stimuli and I guess become so accustomed to doing so that it becomes the natural state of your brain to cause pain. It is a very difficult condition to treat since you basically have to retrain the neurons to learn that not indicating the presence of of pain causing stimuli where there is none is what is normal. by using lidocaine to anesthetize the nociceptors and inhibit their firing for a long enough period of time it's hoped that they will "reset to normal". I don't know how efficacious the treatment is but it obviously didn't work for me and it is really quite unpleasant because as the lidocaine also anesthetizes the rest of your brain it makes you really dumb. I couldn't remember simple tasks like how to tie my shoes nevermind anything the least bit complicated. I developed a horrible stutter and my ability for word recall was shot to hell and had to struggle to keep my train of thought. It also caused frequent bouts of confusion along with hallucinations. it was somewhat interesting on some levels as I have a younger brother with learning disabilities and while getting degrees in psychology and social services I interned in both facilities for the mentally ill and mentally disabled (of course this was before the chronic pain and this lidocaine treatment) but it gave me what I feel to be very unique insight as to the everyday challenges that some of the patients in those facilities must have struggled with.


yeah i don't think they give just epi for pain; i've only seen combinations.

8 days seems...excessive. Shocked however, my background is cardiac, not neuro, so for me lidocaine drips are pretty much just for arrhythmia control. from what i can find, though, the standard is boluses of lido every so often (2-3 weeksish). what you developed sounds like toxicity, and i wouldn't imagine you should've stayed on it once you developed symptoms like that. :/ i'm sorry the treatment they tried didn't work. Sad
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was told before hand that those symptoms/reactions were possible and not dangerous, so it wasn't entirely unexpected despite being unpleasant. thanks, it certainly would have been great if it worked but I think it was kind of a long shot to begin with. at this point though I am trying anything and everything no matter how slim the likelihood and, more and more so as time goes on, in spite the the risk. I'm heading out to chicago tomorrow, in fact, to spend a month in a pain rehabilitation program. it's behavioral based, rather than medical, so it's not going to address treating the pain but hopefully make it less debilitating to manage and maybe even get me off of so many opioids. they have caused nearly as many problems as the pain, although at least now I can take them like I supposed to, I struggled with abusing them for a number of years.
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Oneponytoruleall



Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 3114

PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:


I really hope I didn't kill the thread too by also making it all about me.


The thread dies because no one has any easy cliche answers so they just won't talk about it.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17045
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:
(that goes for you too, mouse, I value your input). I'm not opposed to sharing my experience, I just didn't want it "part of the public record" so to speak.

I really hope I didn't kill the thread too by also making it all about me.


thanks - i don't know how much help i am, i tried to stay a bit general so there wouldn't be anything there that might cause problems for you. i totally understand not wanting things out there on the web where anyone can see them.

and i don't know that it's bad that the thread be about you. you clearly have a perspective that most of us do not. which means that my real feelings are "don't do it, don't throw yourself away", but as much as i try to empathize, i have no way of understanding what life is like for you. all i can do is hope it gets better....but i feel it isn't my place to stand in anyone's way. i can't make someone else's already rough road even worse by insisting they act in accordance with my opinions.

so....i hope it gets better. i hope the new treatment helps.
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Sam the Eagle



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Posts: 2275
Location: 192.168.0.1

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record.

I don't think it's a good thing to switch to pm mode for intimate matters such as this one; if anything the peer review here is great, unforgiving but great. Should I, or anyone, starts pontificating or writing trites, the Sinfest' crowd at large would gang up on the poor soul like a school of shark. There is no way to do that in pm mode.

Whether or not you're lying, let's be blunt this is internet and that's always a possibility, the situation described may happens to others, making it a valid topic as mouse said.
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