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sporko



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2891

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael wrote:
And remember ladies, you can't always tell the penotype by inspection of the jeansotype


michael, this is why i love you.

among other things.

i'm sharing this with classmates. Smile
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10730
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sporko wrote:
it's ok...you have until March to apply to EVMS's PA program for next January! Very Happy

I'm taking microbio next quarter, which I think was the class I needed? So not this year, but next. More than one way to skin a cat...

Quote:
b) can i have the top part in english? since i posted i think i sort of understand the different tracts but i'm pretty sure even that is going in too deep for this class. we are doing so so basic things.........which i still don't get. blah.

I'm sorry, it's hard to guess what you've studied. Proprioception: Where the hell are you!? So you have receptors in your muscles and tendons that tell your body where you are and prevent you from pulling your own limbs off. Your skeletal muscles are innervated by alpha motor neurons and gamma motor neurons. The alpha motor neurons innervate the motor units of skeletal muscle (one motor unit is an array of muscle fibers that contract together, producing force), which are not what we're talking about. Inside skeletal muscle is a muscle spindle, which is muscle tissue wrapped in collagen and has a fusiform (cigar) shape. This muscle is different and doesn't produce force, it's just there to keep the whole spindle taut as the muscle around it shortens (everyone likes a tight spindle, amirite?). The gamma motor neurons are co-activated with the alpha motor neurons, so that as your bicep flexes the spindles inside shorten and stay taut (otherwise, as the muscle shortened the spindle would get floppy).

So that's efferent. You have three types of afferent neurons that detect the velocity and magnitude of stretch of the muscle spindle (and because they're inside of it, the rest of the muscle). When you do a bicep muscle reflex (whack the inner elbow with a tendon hammer) it causes a fast stretch of the biceps brachii muscle(s). The stretch reflex tells the bicep to contract to resist the stretch, causing the arm to flex. This also explains agonist and antagonist muscle contraction, where the flexing of the bicep stretches the long head of the triceps in opposition, causing it to contract, which makes muscle movement smooth.

There's obviously like 8 million other things involved in proprioception... that's just the only one I can remember a mnemonic device for.
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sporko



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 2891

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
sporko wrote:
it's ok...you have until March to apply to EVMS's PA program for next January! Very Happy

I'm taking microbio next quarter, which I think was the class I needed? So not this year, but next. More than one way to skin a cat...

Quote:
b) can i have the top part in english? since i posted i think i sort of understand the different tracts but i'm pretty sure even that is going in too deep for this class. we are doing so so basic things.........which i still don't get. blah.

I'm sorry, it's hard to guess what you've studied. Proprioception: Where the hell are you!? So you have receptors in your muscles and tendons that tell your body where you are and prevent you from pulling your own limbs off. Your skeletal muscles are innervated by alpha motor neurons and gamma motor neurons. The alpha motor neurons innervate the motor units of skeletal muscle (one motor unit is an array of muscle fibers that contract together, producing force), which are not what we're talking about. Inside skeletal muscle is a muscle spindle, which is muscle tissue wrapped in collagen and has a fusiform (cigar) shape. This muscle is different and doesn't produce force, it's just there to keep the whole spindle taut as the muscle around it shortens (everyone likes a tight spindle, amirite?). The gamma motor neurons are co-activated with the alpha motor neurons, so that as your bicep flexes the spindles inside shorten and stay taut (otherwise, as the muscle shortened the spindle would get floppy).

So that's efferent. You have three types of afferent neurons that detect the velocity and magnitude of stretch of the muscle spindle (and because they're inside of it, the rest of the muscle). When you do a bicep muscle reflex (whack the inner elbow with a tendon hammer) it causes a fast stretch of the biceps brachii muscle(s). The stretch reflex tells the bicep to contract to resist the stretch, causing the arm to flex. This also explains agonist and antagonist muscle contraction, where the flexing of the bicep stretches the long head of the triceps in opposition, causing it to contract, which makes muscle movement smooth.

There's obviously like 8 million other things involved in proprioception... that's just the only one I can remember a mnemonic device for.


....wow, thank you. that actually helps a lot...not directly; it's not the same level (i am nowhere near your level), but it helps flesh out context for the listed material we do have to know. Smile
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent! Glad to help! Now explain peripheral versus pulmonary edema. Specifically in relation to heart failure. Please. Smile
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10878
Location: hiding the decline.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sporko wrote:
Dogen wrote:
sporko wrote:
it's ok...you have until March to apply to EVMS's PA program for next January! Very Happy

I'm taking microbio next quarter, which I think was the class I needed? So not this year, but next. More than one way to skin a cat...

Quote:
b) can i have the top part in english? since i posted i think i sort of understand the different tracts but i'm pretty sure even that is going in too deep for this class. we are doing so so basic things.........which i still don't get. blah.

I'm sorry, it's hard to guess what you've studied. Proprioception: Where the hell are you!? So you have receptors in your muscles and tendons that tell your body where you are and prevent you from pulling your own limbs off. Your skeletal muscles are innervated by alpha motor neurons and gamma motor neurons. The alpha motor neurons innervate the motor units of skeletal muscle (one motor unit is an array of muscle fibers that contract together, producing force), which are not what we're talking about. Inside skeletal muscle is a muscle spindle, which is muscle tissue wrapped in collagen and has a fusiform (cigar) shape. This muscle is different and doesn't produce force, it's just there to keep the whole spindle taut as the muscle around it shortens (everyone likes a tight spindle, amirite?). The gamma motor neurons are co-activated with the alpha motor neurons, so that as your bicep flexes the spindles inside shorten and stay taut (otherwise, as the muscle shortened the spindle would get floppy).

So that's efferent. You have three types of afferent neurons that detect the velocity and magnitude of stretch of the muscle spindle (and because they're inside of it, the rest of the muscle). When you do a bicep muscle reflex (whack the inner elbow with a tendon hammer) it causes a fast stretch of the biceps brachii muscle(s). The stretch reflex tells the bicep to contract to resist the stretch, causing the arm to flex. This also explains agonist and antagonist muscle contraction, where the flexing of the bicep stretches the long head of the triceps in opposition, causing it to contract, which makes muscle movement smooth.

There's obviously like 8 million other things involved in proprioception... that's just the only one I can remember a mnemonic device for.


....wow, thank you. that actually helps a lot...not directly; it's not the same level (i am nowhere near your level), but it helps flesh out context for the listed material we do have to know. Smile


You can't believe Dogen! He spreads lies!
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Snorri



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 10878
Location: hiding the decline.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'm joking Dogen is for real talking about things that are true.

Dogen wrote:
So you have receptors in your muscles and tendons that tell your body where you are and prevent you from pulling your own limbs off.

I KNOW RIGHT? That is some fucking crazy shit.
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sporko



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Excellent! Glad to help! Now explain peripheral versus pulmonary edema. Specifically in relation to heart failure. Please. Smile


so very very basically:

circulation of the heart goes:
system veins --> vena cava --> right heart --> lungs --> left heart --> aorta --> system arteries

so peripheral edema is from right heart failure because it can't get blood out into the lungs fast enough; fluid backs up into the system and causes peripheral edema.

pulmonary edema is from left heart failure; the left heart isn't pumping well and the blood backs up into the lungs, causing fluid overload in the pulmonary system.

i don't know if that helps, but that's it at a basic level...there are more factors than that, but you know... yeah.

yeah.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes sense... so the fluid backs up behind the failing ventricle. I was having a hard time visualizing it.

Snorri wrote:
I KNOW RIGHT? That is some fucking crazy shit.

It's like a philosophical question, man. If your body is strong enough to tear your muscles right off your bones, but your body makes it impossible to tear them off are you really strong enough to do it? Right up there with whether God can make a rock so heavy he can't lift it, I tell ya.
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dang, you guys are like my own private medical education.

now i just need someone to explain how i got a rash from tiger balm a week after i stopped using it.
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Mr_Moustache



Joined: 01 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So do you use mnemonics Dogen?
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, they're great. Medical students (especially) are kind of renowned for their use of them to remember long lists of stuff like the cranial nerves (oh, oh, oh, to touch a female's vagina gives Vinnie a hard-on) and whether each cranial nerve is motor, sensory, or both (some say marry money, but my brother says big boobs matter most).

The hardest part is making up the mnemonic. Things that are silly or dirty stick in your mind better (I found the "big boobs" one online and trained it to my whole study group in one recital) because the evocation of emotion makes it encode more easily (boring mnemonics are boring and forgettable).
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Mr_Moustache



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, did you use a book or something, or just a site? I never had to do it , asmy rote learning is pretty good, but I'd like to start be more efficient - and also, i might need to retain more and more stuff if i want to do post-grad.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, it never occurred to me that there might be a site. I knew there were already mnemonics for the lists I needed to remember (they're really most useful for remembering a list, rather than detailed information), so I googled them specifically.

The best memory tool, as I understand it, is the method of loci. Ironically, it took me a while to remember what it was called. It's supposedly how the world record holder for memorizing a randomly shuffled deck of card does it.
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Mr_Moustache



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, i read This one which is a pretty good read, and I can still remember some of the half assed lists I made with it withou repitition or anything. But what I was trying to get at, is that you didnt use a method book or some site that gives out pointers?
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, okay. No, I did it the old-fashioned way: repetition and deep processing (which is time consuming). The mnemonics themselves aren't hard to learn, but knowing that in my previous mnemonic the "v" in "vagina" is vestibulocochlear while the "v" in "Vinnie" is vagus takes training (repetition). Or, it did for me.

I've never made use of mnemonics to any great depth, so I'm probably not the best resource for you. I don't typically need help remembering stuff, but since getting into anatomy there are often times I need to not only remember lists, but learn them fast and retain their order. In psychology there was never really a time when I needed to keep concepts in a certain order (except possibly when doing statistics, but I've never heard of using a mnemonic for remembering the steps to calculate a standard deviation).
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