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2013-02-24: Fierce mode
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did not like this strip, mostly because this shit is bananas.

1. Fembots need visual programming... Again a robot needs visual programming. (His world his rules...) alright, whatever...

2. The stuff Frobo Baggins uploads is FUCKING ILLEGAL now (maybe not foot binding but it's America, where that practice isn't commonplace), and you will be arrested if found practicing ANYTHING that was listed.

3. With that being said, it's clear that the matriarchy want the fembots to think that all men do this, or that people who buy a fembot does this to them.

Man this comic pisses me off, I get the message loud and clear, the real way isn't this rose colored glasses, but the message has been given over and over. The people who don't get it are the ones who will not change no matter how many times it is shown.

But what is to be expected when they throw out literature written by people that said "all heterosexual sex is rape" and " all men should be killed for screwing the world up."

I mean that techie was going to be straight up murdered for what was basically building robots. Does the sisterhood see casual murder as a necessary part of the change? Was xanthe keeping tabs on slick to see if he needed to have an " accident" if nothing really changed?

Again, not saying this a bullshit message, it's not, but it is one where the record is warped a bit from constant use.
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Last edited by Rothide on Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9556

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:

Ibian has already tipped his hand in that post but it is worth pointing out that he does not actually consider the non-white part of the population to count in all his demographic histrionics



ahahahaahahahaahah

Ibian wrote:
Sex is part of normal relationships. Women know that. Sex is part of their duty. Yes, duty. It simply can not work otherwise, and it doesn't. Look up the divorce statistics and fertility rates sometime. And with that I think I'm done here.


Ibian wrote:


The housing bubble, the trillion student loan debt, the economic crisis and the mounting immigration all point in one direction: White people in America will become a minority (there are more non-white babies born in the states than white now). Does anyone believe mexicans and blacks can run things as well as white people have for the past several centuries?

Europe is not doing any better. Seen as a whole we are missing a third of the next generation. The massive middle eastern immigration coupled with their higher fertility rates means we are in the process of being bred out of existence. This is not even considering the immediate problem of them being a net drain on the economy or the fact that they set up parallel societies instead of integrating (England has Sharia courts, for one obvious example).

And all of this? It stems from not having enough kids to keep the population level stable. From women who are "tired" or have "headaches". This attitude that sex is no big deal will wipe us out within a handful of generations. It is already happening, and is obvious to anyone willing to look up the numbers and statistics.



ahahaha oh my god Ibian

fuck off forever you neurotic, misogynist, racist fuck

do not talk about anything involving the wimmins or the colored folk, in fact, just don't talk. go away and find some MRA stormfront hive where you can express your shitty socioeconomic SAVE DA WHITE BABBYS, MAKE WIMMIN HAS THE OBLIGATORY SEX. shut up, go away, goodbye, you are completely ridiculous, go.
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StateOfBedlam



Joined: 07 Feb 2013
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
StateOfBedlam wrote:
The number of people who refuse to identify as feminist or have stopped identifying as feminist because of the more extreme and nuttier groups is really hurting and dividing movements for gender equality. All the people who think trying to remove a problem faced by one sex somehow trivializes problems faced by the other sex aren't exactly helping, either.

EDIT: I'm not calling you the second thing.

Good to know. I tend to look for a big picture in my morals.

And yeah actually what called my attention is that it seemed like a really... How to say it... "Official" site. I think I found it, here it is. http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2008/02/09/faq-female-privilege/

It's the second result when I look for Feminist FAQ. I don't think that this is a random extremist speaking.


---
"To summarize the point of this section: When it’s called benevolent sexism it’s recognized to be tied to the system of sexism, and can therefore be fought (successfully) with tools like feminism, whereas when it’s called “female privilege” the solutions called for tend to call for strengthening the status quo, which ends up making it harder to end the offending practices."

Actually a surprisingly valid point, but I disagree. Calling it "benevolent sexism" just suggests that it's something we want to keep. That's what'd strengthen the status quo. If you want to fight it with "tools like feminism," you'll call it female privilege and just recognize that benefits are allotted to both sexes, at the expense of both sexes - even if it is a consequence of a system ultimately predicated on the supposed superiority of one sex (and it is).
---

There's no "official" spokesperson of feminism or anything at all like that, but I consider TvTropes' "useful notes" on the subject a good way to get an understanding of what feminism is. Namely, "[It's] got one essential message, but there are many divisions and subgroups with different views on how to interpret/act on on that message, and some of them don't get along so well. "
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1019

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StateOfBedlam wrote:
There's no "official" spokesperson of feminism or anything at all like that, but I consider TvTropes' "useful notes" on the subject a good way to get an understanding of what feminism is. Namely, "[It's] got one essential message, but there are many divisions and subgroups with different views on how to interpret/act on on that message, and some of them don't get along so well. "

Yeah, that's why I put the quotations in there. You can't call it official but it's not some random extremist nutso, s/he obviously has made the research and is probably accurate at representing the feminist movement as a whole. It's because of that (amongst other things) that I tend to believe that the movement is slightly misguided and don't feel too comfortable calling myself a feminist despite the fact that I do know and believe in the importance of social equality amongst sexes.

Yeah I know what feminism is about. Don't worry you don't need to convert me to anything we seemingly are in an agreement.
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StateOfBedlam



Joined: 07 Feb 2013
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
You can't call it official but it's not some random extremist nutso


I agree with this...

Leohan wrote:
s/he obviously has made the research and is probably accurate at representing the feminist movement as a whole.


...but I disagree with this.

Leohan wrote:
It's because of that (amongst other things) that I tend to believe that the movement is slightly misguided and don't feel too comfortable calling myself a feminist despite the fact that I do know and believe in the importance of social equality amongst sexes.

Yeah I know what feminism is about. Don't worry you don't need to convert me to anything we seemingly are in an agreement.


That's really the scary thing here. You're position is not unusual. As far as I can tell, you're already a feminist. The challenge is convincing you that you are one. But that's a ridiculous thing for someone to be trying to do, isn't it? I can't tell you what to identify as. I'm in no position to tell you what you are or aren't, so I won't. What I hope I can do is have you walk away from this more likely to provide an accurate representation of feminism to like-minded people (ie. "There are a lot of really misguided people under the umbrella of feminism, and although I don't identify as feminist myself, there are plenty of feminists with views on gender identical to mine. It covers a wide variety of views.")

I don't hate the word "equalist" and I haven't read this whole thing, but this is relevant to the point at hand:

"So why even call yourself a feminist anymore?

I know a lot of women – smart, strong, progressive women, women that previously self-identified as feminists – who no longer use that label. People want to distance themselves from the negative connotations that surround the term “feminism”, or else they don’t want to seem as if they’re only interested in women’s rights."

EDIT: I expect this will be my last post on the subject in this thread, since I'm pretty sure there's nothing more I need to say.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1019

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StateOfBedlam wrote:
That's really the scary thing here. You're position is not unusual. As far as I can tell, you're already a feminist. The challenge is convincing you that you are one. But that's a ridiculous thing for someone to be trying to do, isn't it? I can't tell you what to identify as. I'm in no position to tell you what you are or aren't, so I won't. What I hope I can do is have you walk away from this more likely to provide an accurate representation of feminism to like-minded people (ie. "There are a lot of really misguided people under the umbrella of feminism, and although I don't identify as feminist myself, there are plenty of feminists with views on gender identical to mine. It covers a wide variety of views.")

Oh, I certainly am a feminist. I'm just not comfortable enough about saying that in front of people that don't know as much about feminism like me or you since, well... Ideas that I think are inaccurate and are being accepted. Including more popular ones like the idea that "nice guys" are something to be avoided. (I know where the criticism stems, no need to explain it to me. Feel free to have your opinion but I'm not planning to change mine.)

StateOfBedlam wrote:
EDIT: And I expect this will be my last post on the subject in this thread, since I'm pretty sure there's nothing more I need to say.

There certainly isn't. ^^ Unless the topic changes of course which should happen in less than 5 posts.
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StateOfBedlam



Joined: 07 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:

Oh, I certainly am a feminist. I'm just not comfortable enough about saying that in front of people that don't know as much about feminism like me or you since, well... Ideas that I think are inaccurate and are being accepted.


Ah, well that's different. Sorry. I'm the same way.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3247

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read somewhere (and if I remembered where, I'd say so) that, supposedly, in a few hundred years the entirety of humanity will, as the end result of greater and greater acceptance of and increase in interracial relationships, have stabilized into a nice soothing café au lait color and race as we know it will have ceased to exist. Yay. Smile

Oddly enough, AFAIK no SF films or TV shows set in the future have ever depicted this.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3247

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LadySunami wrote:
The question is, how do we stop genital mutilation without having people jump down our throats for religious suppression?


To the best of my knowledge (and I could easily be wrong), female genital mutilation isn't a religious practice, it's a cultural practice.

As an imperfect analogy, a stereotype of American Southerners is that they're all fundamentalist Christians who have sex with their daughters. Even if that were true (which it isn't), that wouldn't mean that father-daughter incest is an inherent part of fundamentalist Christianity (which it in fact isn't) but would instead mean it was an inherent part of Southern culture (which, again, it isn't).
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
3. With that being said, it's clear that the matriarchy want the fembots to think that all men do this, or that people who buy a fembot does this to them.


Actually, that wasn't clear to me at all. The most I'd be willing to sign in on is that they were programmed to be aware of past injustices committed by women against men, then sort of given a jump start.

Let's please keep in mind that the strip doesn't tell us that what Curly (the most common nickname for the character) did here was right. Like every other character in the strip (except God, Jesus, Buddha, and the Dragon), Curly is an imperfect mortal* whose perspective should not be considered infallible. It's the same basic principle as when Li'l E used to steal Apples of Knowledge or whatever they are.

Heck, for all we know, the Sisterhood (not "the Matriarchy," AFAIK no such organization has yet been implied to exist in the Sinfestiverse) doesn't even instruct Curly to do this stuff, it's just something she does during her free time, a hobby. It's just an extension of hacking into off-limits databases from the comfort of one's own home.

Also, "fierce" doesn't necessarily mean "lethal." There's no evidence that the Fembots were going to kill anybody. Not that "just" beating them up would necessarily be any more justifiable, but there are levels.

From another viewpoint, the Fembots were angry to realize that the Techs were programming them to serve and worship men without letting them know that men aren't actually inherently "worthy" of service and worship.

None of which changes the fact that I personally would rather have seen a strip that included Devil Girls and dialogue. No wonder everybody in Sinfest is growing apart, they don't talk any more. At least not on Sundays. Wink

===

*okay, several of the other characters aren't mortals but they are imperfect and fallible
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10567
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald wrote:
I read somewhere (and if I remembered where, I'd say so) that, supposedly, in a few hundred years the entirety of humanity will, as the end result of greater and greater acceptance of and increase in interracial relationships, have stabilized into a nice soothing café au lait color and race as we know it will have ceased to exist. Yay. Smile

Oddly enough, AFAIK no SF films or TV shows set in the future have ever depicted this.

Fair enough, but it's sad that right now that our own first lady feels obligated to have "white hair". Or what about Oprah, she's like one of the richest women--correction one of the richest people in the world, when's the last time anyone can remember her with kinky hair? (hint: you had to watch morning TV in Chicago in 1983) Just a symptom of racist societal pressures and expectations, that's all.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3247

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Ronald wrote:
I read somewhere (and if I remembered where, I'd say so) that, supposedly, in a few hundred years the entirety of humanity will, as the end result of greater and greater acceptance of and increase in interracial relationships, have stabilized into a nice soothing café au lait color and race as we know it will have ceased to exist. Yay. Smile

Oddly enough, AFAIK no SF films or TV shows set in the future have ever depicted this.

Fair enough, but it's sad that right now that our own first lady feels obligated to have "white hair". Or what about Oprah, she's like one of the richest women--correction one of the richest people in the world, when's the last time anyone can remember her with kinky hair? (hint: you had to watch morning TV in Chicago in 1983) Just a symptom of racist societal pressures and expectations, that's all.


Or, uh, you know, different preferences in hairstyle, there's also that...
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald and Rothide: Uhh, I'm personally kinda certain that it wasn't the DevilCorp guys that showed those images but Curly. I mean, why the hell would THEY do that? Refer to one of my first posts for a further explanation, but I think that the fact that it suddenly became green after an obvious interruption of the pink and sorta happier images is evidence of this.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Ronald and Rothide: Uhh, I'm personally kinda certain that it wasn't the DevilCorp guys that showed those images


I didn't say they were. My apologies if I inadvertently conveyed that I did.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald wrote:
Leohan wrote:
Ronald and Rothide: Uhh, I'm personally kinda certain that it wasn't the DevilCorp guys that showed those images


I didn't say they were. My apologies if I inadvertently conveyed that I did.

Oh, I see the point of my confusion:

"The most I'd be willing to sign in on is that they were programmed to be aware of past injustices committed by women against men, then sort of given a jump start." I mentally inverted it to "By men to women"

That said, what do you even mean by that?
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