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2013-02-26: Misandry
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

firezdog wrote:
emasculation

emasculation

emasculation?
this concept in this context never really made sense to me
It's like a word dudebros use to complain about you not TREATING THEM LIKE A MAN (tm)

lessee

Emasculation.

eMAsCuLATiON

EMassCULaTiON

IN ASS CULaTION

IN ASS COOL LOTION



Oh. That's a good thing, right?

Okay, it makes sense now.
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Last edited by Heretical Rants on Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:22 am; edited 2 times in total
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Gibson22



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 301

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

American History X?

Americun His story X?

A mare icon his tore E X?

A mare is can have tour yes?

A mare can have tour, yes?

PHOTO FINISH! When did you get here? O_O
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

firezdog wrote:
This is one of my sore-points with the rhetoric. Think about the language you're using. Why is it OK when you're going after critics of feminism to say they've been "butt-hurt" and to call them "dude-bro"? The first term would have to allude to some kind of anal (probably homosexual) rape. What is the point of saying this? It's got to be a kind of emasculation -- it is in the neighborhood of calling these people "gay". Aside from being nasty in the just the same way that making fun of people by calling them "gay" is nasty, this also seems to rely on the sort of assumptions about proper masculine behavior that are part and parcel of the assumptions about proper feminine behavior feminism criticizes.


I am rather confused as to how gay = emasculated when a gay relationship has twice as many men as a heterosexual one. If anything it should be like a masculine powerhouse.

It also displeases me that you equate anal rape with being gay. That's just straight up bigotry.
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then Fritter charged in swinging with what was really on everyone's mind after reading that post, and it was glorious.
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firezdog



Joined: 23 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To emasculate a man is to shame him by treating him like or implying he is a woman. It only works in a culture where being a woman is considered shameful -- i.e. in what you would call a "patriarchal" culture. I claimed that to say people are arguing with you are "butt-hurt" is to shame them in this way. So it seems like you're using sexist strategies to combat sexism. I further claimed that this was wrong -- maybe you disagree with that. But if you disagree with any of these points, please tell me which. If it's obtuse for me to be annoyed when people use the term "butt-hurt" (as a gay man, no less) please explain to me what I'm missing.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how saying that someone is butthurt is in any way analogous to calling them a woman, from a patriarchal standpoint or no.

Also, it's not butthurt if you enjoyed yourself.
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:38 am    Post subject: Re: "Butt-sore" and "dude-bro" Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
firezdog wrote:
Thingy things about things.


BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH


That was a piece of art page! My favorite:
Quote:
Other suggestions include: “I wasn’t talking about you when I was saying most trans women are ugly. You pass pretty well!”; “Yes, but you’re not like those other black people who won’t better themselves, you’re very educated!”. Maybe even: “It’s so good that you stay away from drugs, unlike those other sex workers”.


Monkey McDermott, the bad thing is that you pint the point in a hurtful manner. Of course, you are tired of repeating and repe...

Meh, forget it, your sucker punching style is fun
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:42 am    Post subject: Re: "Butt-sore" and "dude-bro" Reply with quote

firezdog wrote:
This is one of my sore-points with the rhetoric. Think about the language you're using. Why is it OK when you're going after critics of feminism to say they've been "butt-hurt" and to call them "dude-bro"?

Simply stated: because rudeness inspires rudeness in return.

Here's a great way to leave a forum where one respects the ideas and opinions of the other contributors:
Quote:
Folks, for reasons of my own/personal reasons, I'm going to be absent from the forums for a while. Right now, I don't know even if I'll be back, let alone when. It's been fun sharing with you people, and I hope we can meet up again, sometime. Until then, Take Good Care!

Compare this with any drama-queening "I'm outta here 'cuz I'm upset and too damned immature to deal with it like an adult" message such as KDX' "farewell" speech.

Does that make all the return insults and jabs "OK?" Probably not, if we're being honest with ourselves. But, while we're being honest with ourselves, I have to admit that I find the return insults and jabs amusing as all hell, which make them a refreshing breath of fresh air after having to read through some self-righteous drama-queening.

Long diatribe made short (sorta) : if someone wants to wish us well, then great; they'll find we are a receptive audience. But if someone wants to stand on their soapbox and whine and cry because they're too thin-skinned to take the same flak they've been throwing around, then Sinfest isn't the place for that person, and the return flak isn't going to stop until long after they've stormed away; that's just how things are done, around here.
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firezdog



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the implication of calling someone "butt-hurt", in this context, is that they were overwhelmed by the feminist's argument and are just saying a bunch of defensive blather in response, where all this indicates is that the argument hit them too close to home for them to say anything intelligent (their reply in itself confirms that they're wrong). But why "butt-hurt"? The obvious association is discomfort from anal sex, and given the background assumption that the argument was overwhelming, the implication is pretty clear: "You got ****ed and you have no good comeback." (And let's face it: rape has been a metaphor for victory for thousands of years.)

But it's true -- whatever I think of, someone somewhere along the line approaching things from a similar point of view has said it a thousand times, and you have experience, so you've heard it a thousand times. That makes it very difficult for people to approach each other with sympathy when having these sorts of discussions -- we can't help seeing each other as just another instance of the generic opponent (the universal "dudebro" or, well you know the counterpart), making the same generic point and inviting the same counterpoint.

As for the other point, that denigration inspires denigration in kind, I can see that -- psychologically, i'ts absolutely true -- but as you say, I'm not sure that's a justification. Like I said, I don't think in a social movement you want to return harm for harm. Maybe it doesn't merit the full comparison, but it's sort of the peaceful vs. violent protest debate. (It doesn't merit the full comparison, because in this case it's a question of peaceful vs. violent language, polite vs. hostile argumentation -- and whether you return hostility with hostility -- and so forth.)

Anyway, it is not my intention to denigrate anyone. Sometimes I get mad, and to top it off I'm long-winded, but I'm trying to express my opinions honestly and with a certain degree of humility, if I'm capable of that.
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bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

firezdog wrote:
But why "butt-hurt"? The obvious association is discomfort from anal sex, and given the background assumption that the argument was overwhelming, the implication is pretty clear: "You got ****ed and you have no good comeback."

Um, "spanked" would need five stars.

firezdog wrote:
(And let's face it: rape has been a metaphor for victory for thousands of years.)

...Your mind is a scary place. Please don't make me go to the scary place!! Razz

firezdog wrote:
As for the other point, that denigration inspires denigration in kind, I can see that -- psychologically, i'ts absolutely true -- but as you say, I'm not sure that's a justification.

If I were a better man than what I am, then I'd be able to do more than just agree with you. Check back with me in about ten years; I may have grown a little more patience and compassion, by then. (Although, fair warning: I might also just get more jaded and curmudgeonly over that time; no promises, either way.)
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firezdog



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK -- spanking I can see. That's much less severe -- still some things lurking, but much, much different connotations. I guess it's hard with these sorts of phrases, because they can evoke a lot of things, and when I trade them with someone or receive them in the course of an argument, probably I'm going to be overly prone to taking them in a way worse than they were meant.

As for victory and rape -- it's really understating it to say there's a metaphor -- 500 years ago it was outright metonymy. Well, today too, unfortunately.

:p
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I like you, scary place; you know cool words like "metonymy!"

:raises glass: Welcome to Sinfest, firezdog! I think you'll have fun, here. Just remember: only take seriously the stuff that must be taken seriously (which is barely half of what gets written seriously, around here, and this is one of the better forums for discourse and debate!)
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with you on the use of the term "butt-hurt." It seems pretty obviously an allusion to having something shoved up your ass, and given the context in which it's used (generally being upset about some outcome of events), the gay sex angle seems the most likely (unless the college kids that invent most of these insults are anti-colonoscopy). Plus, anyone who has played a video game in the last 10 years has probably been told they "got raped" at some point.

But you lose me when you use sweeping generalizations. I don't use the term (or a lot of other terms [anymore], like bitch), and referring to the forum as one homogenous group seems ironically ignorant for a person arguing for nuance in internet insults.
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firezdog



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PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I'll try to behave.
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vector010



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally don't see the connection between butt-hurt and anal rape. Though it is kind of funny to think of all of the connected implications of culture and thought processes that would lead there to being a connection. I've always just seen it as extensions of other older sayings such as:

Reamed/Got Reamed
Tore/Ripped him/her a new one
Chewed him/her a new a-hole
Got Spanked (Already mentioned in the thread)
Chewed his/her ass out


Although, I suppose reamed would come incredibly close to having at least an anal sex connotation. The rest of them though involve non-sexual corporal punishment to the rear end. All of which would lead to a serious case of a hurting buttocks (butt-hurt).
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