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2013-03-06: Victim Blaming
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SA_Penguin



Joined: 13 Feb 2011
Posts: 213
Location: Adelaide

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At the risk of being attacked... it's not the feminist message at fault, it's the delivery.
Monique is starting to sound like a scratched record, or a Nevermore raven. Try some subtlety, humour,satire... mix it up a bit. Duck and weave, in topic and in position, a moving target is harder to hit.
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Wheel



Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's see: yesterday Monique goes on stage with a lacrosse racket and pastes some heckler in the face with return fire and that's cool.

Today, she gets pasted with a tomato and it's not cool.

So let me see if I've got this right:
She's only responsible for her own actions when she's the one throwing fruit?
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1572

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today she was physically attacked for standing up what she believes in; not cool.
Yesterday she defended herself from people physically attacking her; cool.

Yeah, there is a difference.

(By the way, your last line doesn't even seem to make any sense, are you implying that she is responsible for people throwing fruit at her ?)
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2633
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lacrosse racket thing is obviously self-defense.
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Wheel



Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Defending herself is stopping the tomato. Attacking is throwing the tomato back.

Taking the raquet on stage with her shows that she was expecting to elicit the exact response she got.

Blaming slick for pointing out the she got exactly what she expected...
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2633
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She took the racket with her because people were throwing tomatoes. The racket is the result of the tomato throwing, not the other way around. It's obvious that these people would throw tomatoes, whether or not she had a racket with her.

Having read a pretty awesome comic explaining the law; when someone tries to harm someone, the victim is allowed to retaliate and even harm the aggressor if believed that the aggressor will stop harming the victim. For example, if Guy A tries to punch Guy B, Guy B is allowed to punch Guy A in the face to stop him from harming Guy B.

Source: http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=902 and http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=905

So Nique is not in the wrong.

Edit: I totally recommend reading the whole comic.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
She took the racket with her because people were throwing tomatoes. The racket is the result of the tomato throwing, not the other way around. It's obvious that these people would throw tomatoes, whether or not she had a racket with her.

Having read a pretty awesome comic explaining the law; when someone tries to harm someone, the victim is allowed to retaliate and even harm the aggressor if believed that the aggressor will stop harming the victim. For example, if Guy A tries to punch Guy B, Guy B is allowed to punch Guy A in the face to stop him from harming Guy B.

Source: http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=902 and http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=905

So Nique is not in the wrong.

Edit: I totally recommend reading the whole comic.


Which you probably did but miss this...
http://lawcomic.net/guide/?p=920

the tomato was no longer in the Dudebro's hand, thus the threat was over, however Monique became the aggressor by throwing it back.
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1572

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing as the next comic shows that she was in fact hit later on pretty clearly proves that the threat was not over.
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Wheel



Joined: 06 Apr 2012
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, cherry picking your points from a comic strip about the law, that's a valid argument.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bart wrote:
Seeing as the next comic shows that she was in fact hit later on pretty clearly proves that the threat was not over.


True, but it was over for the guy who threw it first, she had the ability to disarm and collect all the tomatoes, thus she escalated it by throwing one back.
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Bart wrote:
Seeing as the next comic shows that she was in fact hit later on pretty clearly proves that the threat was not over.


True, but it was over for the guy who threw it first, she had the ability to disarm and collect all the tomatoes, thus she escalated it by throwing one back.


"She had the ability to disarm and collect all tomatoes ?" Now you're just making stuff up.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bart wrote:
Rothide wrote:
Bart wrote:
Seeing as the next comic shows that she was in fact hit later on pretty clearly proves that the threat was not over.


True, but it was over for the guy who threw it first, she had the ability to disarm and collect all the tomatoes, thus she escalated it by throwing one back.


"She had the ability to disarm and collect all tomatoes ?" Now you're just making stuff up.


She caught the tomato, thus had the ability to collect all of them, or leave, the right to defense is when there is someone coming at you, you can hit them until they stop being a problem, here the only thing they had were tomatoes, she was able to catch one, if she had dropped it, she would have been in the right, but since she threw it back at the person who threw it, it was escalation. Yes there were multiple people, but she didn't throw it at a guy ABOUT TO THROW or WITH a tomato.

... Holy Hungus I'm arguing about the legality of tomato throwing... lets get off this topic OK.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
... Holy Hungus I'm arguing about the legality of tomato throwing... lets get off this topic OK.


We've had sentient toasters, I think tomato legality is a perfectly valid discussion. Cool
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1572

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
She caught the tomato, thus had the ability to collect all of them


Bart wrote:

Now you're just making stuff up.


I'm waiting for some horribly badly written algorithm to stop running in Matlab, so I have time for silly discussions.
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 2633
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:

She caught the tomato, thus had the ability to collect all of them, or leave, the right to defense is when there is someone coming at you, you can hit them until they stop being a problem, here the only thing they had were tomatoes, she was able to catch one, if she had dropped it, she would have been in the right, but since she threw it back at the person who threw it, it was escalation. Yes there were multiple people, but she didn't throw it at a guy ABOUT TO THROW or WITH a tomato.

... Holy Hungus I'm arguing about the legality of tomato throwing... lets get off this topic OK.


EDIT: Double post whoops.

Obviously I disagree. She couldn't have caught all tomatoes. Her racket is too small for that.

Plus if more tomatoes came her way, they could've hit her. She believed that she was still threatened (and if more tomatoes were thrown at her, she would be correct) thus by throwing the tomato at the tomato thrower she was convinced she could dissuaded him from throwing more.

If a bully tries to punch you, wouldn't you punch him first so that he'd stop punching you? I know I would. The surprise of retaliation often works in stopping a further attack.

As for escalation, that would only work if Nique threw something worse than a tomato, say a brick. Otherwise nothing escalated, the thrower only got returned what he intended to do in the first place.

Last but not least, she threw it at the guy who ALREADY THREW the tomato because the tomato thrower proved he was willing to throw tomatoes at her. Other who may already have a tomato at hand could easily realize that they could be the next guy to be splattered and thus halt their actions.

Pfew. I need a tea break.
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