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2013-03-06: Victim Blaming
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John in Tronna



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
Posts: 71
Location: Not in Tronna anymore

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Or do I have the right to go to a Beiber concert and throw shit that I'm not aware of?


My gawd, I am so tempted to tell you to go ahead...
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yinello wrote:
Rothide wrote:

She caught the tomato, thus had the ability to collect all of them, or leave, the right to defense is when there is someone coming at you, you can hit them until they stop being a problem, here the only thing they had were tomatoes, she was able to catch one, if she had dropped it, she would have been in the right, but since she threw it back at the person who threw it, it was escalation. Yes there were multiple people, but she didn't throw it at a guy ABOUT TO THROW or WITH a tomato.

... Holy Hungus I'm arguing about the legality of tomato throwing... lets get off this topic OK.


EDIT: Double post whoops.

Obviously I disagree. She couldn't have caught all tomatoes. Her racket is too small for that.

Plus if more tomatoes came her way, they could've hit her. She believed that she was still threatened (and if more tomatoes were thrown at her, she would be correct) thus by throwing the tomato at the tomato thrower she was convinced she could dissuaded him from throwing more.

If a bully tries to punch you, wouldn't you punch him first so that he'd stop punching you? I know I would. The surprise of retaliation often works in stopping a further attack.

As for escalation, that would only work if Nique threw something worse than a tomato, say a brick. Otherwise nothing escalated, the thrower only got returned what he intended to do in the first place.

Last but not least, she threw it at the guy who ALREADY THREW the tomato because the tomato thrower proved he was willing to throw tomatoes at her. Other who may already have a tomato at hand could easily realize that they could be the next guy to be splattered and thus halt their actions.

Pfew. I need a tea break.


Alright maybe I was wrong in escalation, but she had dissuaded the threat against her from the one person, when she threw it back, she became the aggressor, now had he caught it and threw it back again, the man would have become the aggressor again as well. Again, I'm not seeing the whole image though, maybe the guy had a bushel of tomatoes, or had the ability to get more easily, then it is self defense, however if he only had one tomato, no way to get more, and even if there were more people with tomatoes the person she threw the tomato at had nothing left to threaten with and was no longer a threat, when she threw it back (in that exact case) she was the aggressor.

Great now I'm seeing Monique and the crowd with lacrosse sticks throwing tomatoes back and forth, such a stupid image but it's making me snicker...
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was a tomato thrower, sitting in a crowd of fellow tomato throwers. It's not really a stretch to imagine he could have easily gotten more tomatoes.

Edit; looking at my post times and the progress the algorithm, I have about another 30 to 45 minutes for ridiculous discussions. Bring it on.
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tamalthean



Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just popping in to posit something that hasn't been mentioned yet - perhaps Tat isn't actually going for a completely "she's right, he's just ignorant" stance here. I like to think there's a little bit of Tat in every character, so we might actually be seeing a battle of his own personal conflicting ideologies. On the one hand, he's definitely been on a "feminist" kick (for better or worse). On the other hand, this could be merely the visual representation of his own personal conflict, or an exaggeration of the dichotomy between how he used to think and how he thinks now, or even just the clash between his current feelings towards the comic.

Try a little exercise. Imagine Slick is Tat from 5 years ago or so. Monique is New Tat. Now read.

Or, (and I believe this is the more prevelant interpretation may be atm), you could make Slick into a well-meaning forum-member who wants Tat to "keep the peace" and make nice with his fans and not alienate some of them.

OR, Slicky's one side of the current argument on the boards, 'Nique's another, and Tat's just Big D, sitting back and watching his baby struggle to establish an independent existance before his eyes - once edgy, a little evil, and undeniably adorable, but now trying to live life anew in a different, purer, "good" incarnation. Bullied a bit ('Nique's hecklers could all be demons - we haven't seen any faces or bodies since Slick stopped slamming - and could possibly have even been the same demons that hang out by the fire hydrant), but protected by those willing to just let him be and play along with him, regardless of the ethics of HOW they play and protect him. And every now and then someone from the watchful Sisterhood comes along and strikes a direct blow to outside forces that try to remold him in the image deemed "acceptable" on his behalf, because he himself won't (or can't) attack his own father, the person who possibly cares about him the most.

Of course I'm talking about Lily.

OR, read this as the side of Tat that recognizes how much he's changed his characters in the last year or so and kind of yearns to go back to the way things were, because it's easy and comfortable and there's a sweet rapport already built up with his audience, talking to the Tat that thinks his characters should change just as he himself has changed and grown as a person, because he's always been kind of progressive-y and screw the man, he's gonna do what he wants because this is HIS baby, and death of the author - people gonna think what they wanna regardless of what he wants them to think.

We've gotten a ton of new characters and at least 5 significant character changes/developments (Fuschia/Blue, Slick's evil side personified, 'Nique, Lil'E, Seymour) within a relatively short period of time, Sinfest-wise, and I think maybe that's the result of trying to convey a greyer side to life. Devil girls can be kind, sensitive, naive, and complex; fundamentalists can be a little sweet and helpful and likeable; the doctrine which one followed earlier in life can change later on; the Devil could have loved a woman/angel and can secretly care for his progeny. "Normal" people that we sympathize with can have a dark side that manifests itself without their knowledge, or that acts almost of its own accord regardless of how well-meaning the conscious mind may be. People who still watch porn even if they believe it's demeaning to women, for example, or who struggle to embrace and champion a different form of femininity even as they find themselves subconsciously participating in the "patriarchy", eyes wide open to their own hypocrisy. Or people who still support a comic by reading it even if it's only so they can bash the current message it's touting, in hopes of making it "better".

Sinfest's 50+ shades of grey right now. I'm willing to say Slicky's the stand-in for the everyman, but the everyman's struggling more than ever to figure out what's what.


Or, I'm over-analyzing a comic strip. Sorry for the length; please continue discussion on tomato-throwing at your leisure.
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John in Tronna



Joined: 03 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weighing in...

We don't know who specifically she fired the tomato back at -- the thrower, or possibly another who had an arm cocked back to throw.

We do know she was probably outnumbered, and she wasn't sufficiently Jedi enough to block all the tomatoes -- she did appear to get nailed at least once.

I don't think that Slick here was being a Nice Guy, I think he was genuinely trying to be truly nice, and of course failing, b/c he missed the point.

And I don't think she was being overreactive. She got physically assaulted for voicing her beliefs, ended up wearing food of questionable freshness, and then, instead of getting the kind of support she needed from Slick, got backhanded blame.

I just sort of did a mental game where I put MLK in 'Nique's place, Replaced "Patriarchy!" with "I have a dream...", and then have someone at the Pearly Gates saying, "Shouldn't rile 'em up like that..."
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Yinello



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really wish I could draw a comic of sentient toasters throwing tomatoes at Justin Bieber wielding a lacrosse racket.
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Alpha Aim



Joined: 19 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which brings up a question. Who's profiting from the whole tomato thing?
After all, readily available tomatoes don't grow... on... trees...

Anyway, are we going to see some conflict? Really want to see some conflict.

I think, if this was real, one side would've given out by now, either Nique would've left for somewhere else, or the hecklers would've left for a different coffee shop. It's surprising how they've faced each other for so long, yet doing the same thing.
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpha Aim wrote:
Which brings up a question. Who's profiting from the whole tomato thing?
After all, readily available tomatoes don't grow... on... trees...

Anyway, are we going to see some conflict? Really want to see some conflict.

I think, if this was real, one side would've given out by now, either Nique would've left for somewhere else, or the hecklers would've left for a different coffee shop. It's surprising how they've faced each other for so long, yet doing the same thing.


I always wonder if there is more people before and after her. So it's less of them just showing up to throw tomatoes, to instead being, "I come for everything before and after her act."
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
oh, this thread should be fun


yeah, so, good job on this one guys
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
oh, this thread should be fun


yeah, so, good job on this one guys


You're welcome! I now demand my payment from you good sir.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you were promised nothing, and nothing is what you shall receive

~*CAPITALISM*~
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Yinello



Joined: 10 May 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curse you ShadowCell! I shall hunt down your horse and say it's not amazing! *shakes fist in anger at the sky*
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, if you don't want to go all round the universe and all the other places too, that's your loss
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alpha Aim wrote:
Which brings up a question. Who's profiting from the whole tomato thing?
After all, readily available tomatoes don't grow... on... trees...


It's been shown that D-man shows up with a vegetable stand nearby Nique's performances, as I recall. So that means D-man is of course the one who is profiting.
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Shadow Master



Joined: 18 May 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't shake the feeling that the tomato acted like a Brain Slug and pacified her until it was removed, at which point she suddenly regained her ability to passionately retort.
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