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When is hate okay?
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10256
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best type of shaggy dog stories are Feghoots.

Why?

For the same reason that hoosegow is the best term for a place of imprisonment -- the words are ridiculously awesome Laughing
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 707

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikewee777 wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
Mikewee777 wrote:
Hate is the punchline to every joke.


What? I disagree whole-heatedly.
I'm, um, not really sure who I'm hating with those jokes.
Also: Puns, wordplay, and shaggy dog stories.

You hate America. Why the drones haven't struck your home of terrorism is a mystery.
I understand that Dunbar's number plays a role in your apathy, but it really shouldn't.
Everyone who performs self-deprecating humor projects hate of their own credibility.
If you are a crazy statesman and send millions to their deaths you are a hero.
A Single Death is a Tragedy; a Million Deaths is a Statistic.
If you shoot one person you are a murderer.
Causality disruption is serious business.
A pirate in pain is unfortunate.
Puns are a insult to language.
Fantasy is a insult to reality.
Bible is a insult to history.
Interruptions are rude.[/img]


I... what? I'm not sure I understand this post at all.
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Mikewee777



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
Posts: 528
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Humor vs explanations.
Both hurt audiences.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6315

PostPosted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
I... what? I'm not sure I understand this post at all.


This is the standard and acceptable response to Mikewee. Just back away slowly and don't make eye contact.
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikewee is one of my favourite posters of all time, and that post is a prime example of why.
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
I... what? I'm not sure I understand this post at all.


This is the standard and acceptable response to Mikewee. Just back away slowly and don't make eye contact.


Crap, too late, I think.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My feelings towards most of Mikewee's post are "Damn! I want some of whatever he's smoking 'cuz it's got to be some GOOD shit."
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Smooshie



Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Posts: 141
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
To answer the question at the top of the title.

When people make hand wringy passive aggressive posts about how mean people are to a bunch of sexist assholes who shit all over the forum, it's fully justified.

Edit: but to address some of your post.

I'm not a fucking professor of gender studies, you aren't paying me as though i were, and you can do your own damn research

Devils advocates are shitheads when discussing topics like thsi



Because fuck you

Don't worry (or do, if you dislike me for some reason), I've read through this thread but I lack the energy and willpower to respond to more than this, and I fear this may not be adequate:

If you are insinuating that I am being passive-aggressive about your treatment of assholes on this forum, then you've mostly got it right. I'm a big proponent of ignoring jerks, especially on an online forum, where they can do no harm and feeding them only makes everyone else's day a bit grayer. And it's so easy, too! A shame there aren't moderators, but I get the impression a lot of the fun of posting here would evaporate overnight. That being said, do you dislike me me because of the things I have said? It's okay if you do, and I won't hold it against you because that would be silly. I only defend those who cause you ire incidentally; if they weren't here, I'd probably be saying the same things. This topic isn't really about that kind of thing, though. Perhaps there's some sort of underlying motivation I myself am not privy to, but there's no point in trying to uncover that since I am asserting very little here anyway. And you guys must be interested, or you'd have let this topic die. Perhaps you think I'm such a blowhard that you want to watch this topic and perhaps my posts go down in flames? That'd certainly be fun to watch as someone other than me, and perhaps if someone else had posted these things, I'd be watching the whole thing burn with you.

Thank you for your links, though. I'll read through the entire "Derailing For Dummies" page and more as time allows, but I've got midterms coming up these next two weeks.

I am not looking to win here, because this isn't intended to be a polemic. There's no real winning, only pointing out when someone has not answered the question and asking further questions. Besides that, these concepts appear to be simple enough, and one's own philosophy and beliefs are things that they ought to be able to explain. Everyone sees things differently, and I don't want to be the one to provide definitions that will cause people to bicker over them instead of the central questions, and I don't want people to constrain themselves to another's (limited) understanding of things.

If I am playing devil's advocate, I'm certainly not aware. Perhaps it's a subconscious thing, I don't know. What's wrong with asking questions? To that end, the conclusion to the criticism of trolling disguised as being a devil's advocate goes against the fundamental methods of philosophy and sociology. Then again, it is highly unlikely that I am knowledgeable in either of those fields, so I guess my point is moot.

And why shouldn't I want to hear one's opinion on hate? Is that person the philosophical equivalent of the Hulk or something?

Also, I understand Mikewee's posts... sort of. He's trying to show you how those jokes can be understood to be hateful or something along those lines. The beginning is... well, I guess it's a combination of racism, some type of social commentary, and I don't even know what else.
However, he's definitely smoking something.
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Mikewee777



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that I am no longer malnourished, I can now attempt to speak clearly about when hate is appropriate:

Bullying is a learned behavior by the apathetic.
Hate the sin? Or hate the sinner that promotes the sin?

http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/19ne4l/its_tough_to_be_mila_kunis/
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 17047
Location: under the bed

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smooshie wrote:
A shame there aren't moderators, but I get the impression a lot of the fun of posting here would evaporate overnight.


exactly. many of us love this place precisely because it is not moderated. which does mean it can get rough-and-tumble - it's our way of self-moderating. No powerful entity is going to remove the posts that might be considered offensive, or off-topic, or not appropriate to the subforum. so yeah - gonna get some pretty aggressive language (because language is all we have to deal with the people whose ideas we find hateful). but it also means we are free to discuss _everything_ - the interesting topics are the ones that go on for hundreds of pages and into all different directions, the boring ones disappear pretty quickly. so you are certainly free to post any question you want. but expect that it will be judged, occasionally harshly, by the readers.

if you require a forum be polite and well-moderated, this is probably not the forum for you.
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Smooshie



Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:

if you require a forum be polite and well-moderated, this is probably not the forum for you.

Nah, I just find this line of thinking interesting to pursue. I can't help it, you guys are interesting. Laughing
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

being assholes in the name of justice.

of course, we all have different ideas of justice.
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Mikewee777



Joined: 16 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed that this thread isn't derailed with a sufficient amount of hate, so let's talk about the STD's that famous ancient Jews suffered from.

We all know the bible is full of sex and stds:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/x_rated.htm

Genesis 20:2 [Oh yeah, she's totally my baby sister. Go ahead, fuck her. She's totally clean (NOT!)]

psalms 38:5 [King david has STDS: "My wounds fester and are loathsome because of my sinful folly".]

1 Kings 1 [On his deathbed, David gives a virgin girl his STD's]
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9458

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikewee normally I would say you should get your head scanned for science but I am kind of afraid that the offending phineas gageuian interloper is still present and I don't want you to turn the mri machine into a paint mixer with your skull the second they turn it on
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bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Posts: 728
Location: Here and Now

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing I like most about Darq's response is that it requires a person to recognize his own callous motives and to take responsibility for them as he enjoys his right to spout whatever vitriol he likes. That, in a nutshell, it requires a certain maturity in order to act immaturely. That's pretty neat!

But I'm not sure it answers the question of justification that Smooshie is asking. Sure, if a person is willing to accept the consequences of her actions, then she is free to act. But does that mean she is right to act? Are there times when it is the wiser and the better course to refrain from acting? If so, then can one truly be justified in acting in those situations?

Much as I am loathe to admit it, I'm afraid some of the justification for hateful words does indeed come from schoolyard "justice;" there are those individuals who, no matter how clear and concise the arguments against their own stated positions may be, simply will not respect others around them and refuse to refrain, themselves, from inflammatory and/or insulting posts. To such individuals, there really are only two responses: ignore them, or respond in kind. The question then becomes: which response is likeliest to return the discussion to something the participants can enjoy peaceably? If the inflammatory person is ignored, will he or she cease the inflammatory posts and participate in other discussions calmly, rationally, and in a friendly manner? Or has that person proven so ingrained in his or her provocative manners that the only course with any hope for eventual peace among the remaining participants, is to so insult and abuse the inflammatory poster that he or she finally leaves the forum in a huff?

Surprisingly, sometimes the latter course of action results in a very unusual and surprisingly enjoyable outcome: the offensive person does not leave but all other participants come to view that person as irrelevant--a "resident troll" whose posts are read with amusement, doleful head-shaking, and utterly no credence at all. Such a "resident troll" can even become a bit of a local hero-figure on the forum--someone invoked for purposes of amusement.

So, the TL;DR: justification for or against hateful posting may simply boil down to "what is likeliest to get things back to a peaceable status quo?"
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