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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6023
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

philosophy is a sufficiently unnatural way of thinking that everyone who does it often if not for a living is pretty weird, and it only becomes a thing that lots of people do when the world around you is in some serious shit. so, yeah, this is why the greatest philosophers tend to have disparaging things to say about philosophy itself.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12077
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
philosophy is a sufficiently unnatural way of thinking that everyone who does it often if not for a living is pretty weird, and it only becomes a thing that lots of people do when the world around you is in some serious shit. so, yeah, this is why the greatest philosophers tend to have disparaging things to say about philosophy itself.

It probably doesn't help that you have to put up with a bunch of philosophers as your colleagues all day.
Man, if I had to be around of bunch of philosophers like all the time? I'd be cheesed. So cheesed.
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bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Posts: 728
Location: Here and Now

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
philosophy is a sufficiently unnatural way of thinking that everyone who does it often if not for a living is pretty weird, and it only becomes a thing that lots of people do when the world around you is in some serious shit. so, yeah, this is why the greatest philosophers tend to have disparaging things to say about philosophy itself.

It probably doesn't help that you have to put up with a bunch of philosophers as your colleagues all day.
Man, if I had to be around of bunch of philosophers like all the time? I'd be cheesed. So cheesed.

...I now understand Schopenhauer.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes. the secret to being a great philosopher is to hate philosophy but not be any good at anything else, so you are constantly clawing at the edges of the field to get out and go be a doctor or a lawyer or something like your parents wanted.

also, lots of substance abuse. like crazy substance abuse.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12077
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitflipper wrote:
WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
philosophy is a sufficiently unnatural way of thinking that everyone who does it often if not for a living is pretty weird, and it only becomes a thing that lots of people do when the world around you is in some serious shit. so, yeah, this is why the greatest philosophers tend to have disparaging things to say about philosophy itself.

It probably doesn't help that you have to put up with a bunch of philosophers as your colleagues all day.
Man, if I had to be around of bunch of philosophers like all the time? I'd be cheesed. So cheesed.

...I now understand Schopenhauer.

Totally different problem. See, all his friends and acquaintances would carefully watch his pantry, his study, his library, etc. Whenever it seemed that he needed something or had a want, they knew about it. Then they'd hoof it to the likeliest place for him to acquire it. When he got there, they would be hidden throughout the place. As he strolled down the aisles and picked up the wares, each in turn would pop up. "Hey, Shoppin' Hauer!"
"Find any good deals, Shoppin' Hauer?"
"Fancy meeting you here at this time, but I guess it is Shoppin' Hour!"

Every damn time.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10606
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find this conversation funny because the two disciplines we're mocking were my major and minor. I am the most annoying person in the woooooorld!
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 707

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
philosophy is a sufficiently unnatural way of thinking that everyone who does it often if not for a living is pretty weird, and it only becomes a thing that lots of people do when the world around you is in some serious shit. so, yeah, this is why the greatest philosophers tend to have disparaging things to say about philosophy itself.


Weird, I rather enjoyed philosophy and the arguing, and trying to look at the world from different viewpoints...

Then again, as far as I can tell, 'unnatural ways of thinking' are sort of par-for-the-course in my field.

/Mom used to joke I'd make a good Jesuit.
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bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
I find this conversation funny because the two disciplines we're mocking were my major and minor.

Ah-ha! So there is a reason it's always so damned annoying, getting into an argument with you! Razz
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bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
yes. the secret to being a great philosopher is to hate philosophy but not be any good at anything else, so you are constantly clawing at the edges of the field to get out and go be a doctor or a lawyer or something like your parents wanted.

also, lots of substance abuse. like crazy substance abuse.

...and now I understand Frued.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, no mistake, i totally love philosophy, or else i wouldn't be majoring in it and dooming myself to a life of low income and chasing fleeting academic jobs.

i just have no illusions about how weird it is, 'cuz it really isn't natural to go questioning all your beliefs. which is why philosophy flourishes when times are tough and it enters people's minds that maybe times are tough because there's something wrong with their beliefs.

@bitflipper: no, this is how you understand Freud
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10606
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
philosophy is a sufficiently unnatural way of thinking that everyone who does it often if not for a living is pretty weird, and it only becomes a thing that lots of people do when the world around you is in some serious shit. so, yeah, this is why the greatest philosophers tend to have disparaging things to say about philosophy itself.


Weird, I rather enjoyed philosophy and the arguing, and trying to look at the world from different viewpoints...

Then again, as far as I can tell, 'unnatural ways of thinking' are sort of par-for-the-course in my field.

/Mom used to joke I'd make a good Jesuit.

Once you've accepted that all knowledge rests on inherently irrational assumptions and can never be proven (and generally assumes the truthfulness of senses - which is ridiculous - or the existence of an unprovable external world or God) then all you can do is argue... There's no way to be right in a formal sense, you can only have better arguments than the other guy. For some people that's maddening.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 10606
Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitflipper wrote:
Dogen wrote:
I find this conversation funny because the two disciplines we're mocking were my major and minor.

Ah-ha! So there is a reason it's always so damned annoying, getting into an argument with you! Razz

Yep. I planned my academic career to enhance my best trait - proving people wrong and being irritating about it.
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Smooshie



Joined: 24 Jan 2013
Posts: 141
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooooh, philosophy! I'm neither a philosophy major nor minor, and I'm in one philosophy class, which is really more of an education class, but it's a personal interest of mine. So many things to read! Very Happy
Snorri wrote:
The best thing about philosophy students is that they don't just believe you. They go "nah man, you're talking shit" instead of saying "wow that is interesting! you are so learned!".

It's a bit upsetting to think that philosophy students are the only group I know of that consistently challenges others' values... but then, a lot of them are very silly because they hold contrarian beliefs simply for the sake of being a contrarian. Others (like me) are really wishy-washy about some things.
Dogen wrote:
Ever tried to have a conversation with someone after they've taken their first philosophy class? Suddenly it's all "categorical imperative" this and "utilitarianism" that.

I eat philosophy major undergrads for dinner. I've made several people change their majors from philosophy to something else. It's a fun thing as a minor, but unless you're someone like Zizek, you're probably better off not pursuing that as a major. Laughing
bitflipper wrote:

...I now understand Schopenhauer.

No, you don't. Probably. Laughing
ShadowCell wrote:
philosophy is a sufficiently unnatural way of thinking that everyone who does it often if not for a living is pretty weird, and it only becomes a thing that lots of people do when the world around you is in some serious shit. so, yeah, this is why the greatest philosophers tend to have disparaging things to say about philosophy itself.

I don't quite follow your reasoning. Why is it an unnatural way of thinking? Also, "the greatest" philosophers largely challenged the conventional/popular philosophies of their time, so their attacks were not centered around the concept of philosophy so much as the understanding of the concept of philosophy, along with its use and practice.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Location: Bellingham, WA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smooshie wrote:
Dogen wrote:
Ever tried to have a conversation with someone after they've taken their first philosophy class? Suddenly it's all "categorical imperative" this and "utilitarianism" that.

I eat philosophy major undergrads for dinner. I've made several people change their majors from philosophy to something else. It's a fun thing as a minor, but unless you're someone like Zizek, you're probably better off not pursuing that as a major. Laughing

ShadowCell is a philosophy major. Try it. I expect you'll find your results... disturbing. *Darth Vader breathing*
Quote:
ShadowCell wrote:
philosophy is a sufficiently unnatural way of thinking that everyone who does it often if not for a living is pretty weird, and it only becomes a thing that lots of people do when the world around you is in some serious shit. so, yeah, this is why the greatest philosophers tend to have disparaging things to say about philosophy itself.

I don't quite follow your reasoning. Why is it an unnatural way of thinking?

Dogen wrote:
Once you've accepted that all knowledge rests on inherently irrational assumptions and can never be proven (and generally assumes the truthfulness of senses - which is ridiculous - or the existence of an unprovable external world or God) then all you can do is argue... There's no way to be right in a formal sense, you can only have better arguments than the other guy. For some people that's maddening.

Everyone believes they're right most of the time, and most people assume their sense perception is valid. Turns out you can never know if you're right because none of your arguments are rational. Ever. But once you accept that, it's all good.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
Posts: 10261
Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything thought to be true just might be proven wrong at a future date.
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