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bitflipper
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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Location: Here and Now
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 Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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In other words, Reader, I think Monkey's trying to say "You're welcome to your own opinion, but don't presume to speak for me."
edit ...which I just did, myself. Sorry, Monkey.
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Last edited by bitflipper on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ricia
Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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| But...Slick is right. People don't like being hit over the head with this stuff. If you get in everybody's face they feel attacked and they either shut down or lash out. The Sisterhood is, in fact, more subtle. Xanthe leaves literature for people like Crim and Lime but never yells at them to read it or even checks if they have. Curly has a booth and answers questions but only to those who come up and ask. Nique is being obnoxious. Her cause is great but her methods...Slick is right. She needs to tone it down or nobody is going to listen. |
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Reader1
Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkey Mcdermott wrote: | | Reader1 wrote: | | Monkey Mcdermott wrote: | | Reader1 wrote: | | not sure if he's really that much of a dudebro or if he just keeps his foot in his mouth 24/7... its starting to look like both. really want to know where tat is gonna end up with all this. as he continues fleshing out this part of slick's character he makes him more of a dudebro with each installment. i'm not saying slick has to be perfect but its been a while since we've seen the "nice" side of him. on the forums he's slowly becoming the guy everyone loves to hate as opposed to what he used to be, the underdog you rooted for even though you knew he would fail spectacularly. |
Don't project your impressions of the character on others. |
read: don't share your opinion |
More about phrasing.
Slick has always annoyed me. I have never rooted for him. He's kind of a douche. |
... and you read this comic because? |
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bitflipper
Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Posts: 728
Location: Here and Now
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Ricia wrote: | | But...Slick is right. People don't like being hit over the head with this stuff. If you get in everybody's face they feel attacked and they either shut down or lash out. The Sisterhood is, in fact, more subtle. Xanthe leaves literature for people like Crim and Lime but never yells at them to read it or even checks if they have. Curly has a booth and answers questions but only to those who come up and ask. Nique is being obnoxious. Her cause is great but her methods...Slick is right. She needs to tone it down or nobody is going to listen. |
That doesn't stop Monique from being right, too, though; he was out of line to imply it was her fault that the audience was rude and ill-mannered.
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Monkey Mcdermott
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3352
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Reader1 wrote: | | Monkey Mcdermott wrote: | | Reader1 wrote: | | Monkey Mcdermott wrote: | | Reader1 wrote: | | not sure if he's really that much of a dudebro or if he just keeps his foot in his mouth 24/7... its starting to look like both. really want to know where tat is gonna end up with all this. as he continues fleshing out this part of slick's character he makes him more of a dudebro with each installment. i'm not saying slick has to be perfect but its been a while since we've seen the "nice" side of him. on the forums he's slowly becoming the guy everyone loves to hate as opposed to what he used to be, the underdog you rooted for even though you knew he would fail spectacularly. |
Don't project your impressions of the character on others. |
read: don't share your opinion |
More about phrasing.
Slick has always annoyed me. I have never rooted for him. He's kind of a douche. |
... and you read this comic because? |
Kanji comics, god/devil interaction, criminy/fuschia interaction. I don't like slick and somehow that makes all the rest of the comic unamusing?
| Quote: | | But...Slick is right. People don't like being hit over the head with this stuff. If you get in everybody's face they feel attacked and they either shut down or lash out. The Sisterhood is, in fact, more subtle. Xanthe leaves literature for people like Crim and Lime but never yells at them to read it or even checks if they have. Curly has a booth and answers questions but only to those who come up and ask. Nique is being obnoxious. Her cause is great but her methods...Slick is right. She needs to tone it down or nobody is going to listen. |
This for your marginalized peoples should be soft and well spoken and long suffering tude.
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ShadowCell
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 7129
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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it is always the same complaint, "you have to be nicer!" it never ends. there is never a point at which you're "nice enough" to be listened to, because you will always reach the point where you're "nice enough" to be ignored first. and what you have to say is fundamentally not all that nice to begin with, and no amount of sugarcoating will change that--so no amount of "being nicer" will ever be enough to satisfy the people who complain "you have to be nicer!"
so the complaint, "you have to be nicer!" really just translates to "you need to stop talking about this!"
well, fuck that. |
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Reader1
Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| bitflipper wrote: | In other words, Reader, I think Monkey's trying to say "You're welcome to your own opinion, but don't presume to speak for me."
edit ...which I just did, myself. Sorry, Monkey. |
ah. didn't mean it to come off that way. more like it's my opinion of the forum's opinion. i guess i could put IMO in front of it but i feel like that should be implicit since everything anyone says is only their own opinion. i find that those who need others to pre-empt their statements with IMO tend to be more sensitive than most. interesting that the guy who called me out on it looks to be flipping everyone off with each post :P |
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Monkey Mcdermott
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3352
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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Stop doing things to deserve being flipped off and maybe Mr Rogers will be nicer.
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Arkhron
Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 272
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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I dont think Monique has to be nicer, or subtler but only different. Her experience (showed to us, at least) is failure in to reach to her public.
As far as we know, of course. Maybe Mr Tatsuya hasn't showed us that, in every performance 45 dudebros throw veggies and 5 stopped and listen. In that case, Monique would consider to go forward (and I still don't recommend, I dont like martyrs)
But for now, we only see reject and abuse. May she find a better way, one wich reaches his public? Not a nicer way... If she thinks that using a tennis-ball-cannon full loaded with cucumbers would exemplarize how a women feel in the patriarchy (ah! almost sonic phallus on your face!) go for it!
but for now, as far Mr. Tatsuya has showed us, she is failing in the delivery of a good message.
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Last edited by Arkhron on Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Reader1
Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkey Mcdermott wrote: | | Stop doing things to deserve being flipped off and maybe Mr Rogers will be nicer. |
somehow i doubt that would change things, lol :) |
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Monkey Mcdermott
Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3352
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Reader1 wrote: | somehow i doubt that would change things, lol  |
Never know til you try.
Now, good luck navigating the untracked minefield of hot button topics that will set me off and make me think you deserve being flipped the bird.
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Reader1
Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 111
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkey Mcdermott wrote: | | Reader1 wrote: | | somehow i doubt that would change things, lol :) |
Never know til you try.
Now, good luck navigating the untracked minefield of hot button topics that will set me off and make me think you deserve being flipped the bird. |
no :) |
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Homeslice
Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 392
Location: In your fridge
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Homeslice
Joined: 16 Jun 2012
Posts: 392
Location: In your fridge
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Monkey Mcdermott wrote: | | Reader1 wrote: | | somehow i doubt that would change things, lol |
Never know til you try.
Now, good luck navigating the untracked minefield of hot button topics that will set me off and make me think you deserve being flipped the bird. |
How 'bout them yankees? |
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vector010
Joined: 18 Feb 2013
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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So, I think THIS is pretty relevant here.
It is pretty long, but here are two parts that really say it best:
| Quote: | | I believe that some people attack an argument’s tone when they have nothing else to dispute but don’t want to concede, that such attacks are often insincere and derailing and, well, false. However, there are two contextual keys to the validity of calling something a tone argument: |
Then one of the points under that..
| Quote: | | Some circumstances and topics certainly call for anger and vitriol. However, the key to this one is your purpose. Vitriol pretty much only works when (a) it’s aimed at someone other than your audience and (b) your audience already pretty much agrees with you. It’s great for rallying the troops, but for getting people to agree with you who didn’t before, it pretty much sucks. In this case, the logical fallacy is the assumption that the person offended by the writer’s anger is part of the writer’s intended audience. In other words, if you find yourself saying, “It’s not about you,” it’s probably a legitimate tone argument. |
I mean, yeah... Slick's wording sucks. Based on how we've seen him talk about Monique's actions before his intent might suck. Of course, he also could just have been frustrated with how abrasive she has been in talking about feminism and been venting. But, based on what we know of his character that probably isn't the case. All of that said, it seems like he is genuinely attempting to engage his friend in a conversation. I find myself really sad that she was super offended instead of considering the case Slick was making and realizing that even though he was wrong as it was worded, maybe he had a point about the tone she used in addressing the issue and how effective it was in persuading her audience.
Of course then again, maybe her intent was never to persuade her audience. In that case though the only other reasons for her performances I can think of are either that it is cathartic for her, or she is being intentionally insulting and abrasive towards the audience (note: I'm not saying either is true). In the second case I'd have to say that Slick had a point in the previous comic. It's kinda like trolling on an internet forum and then getting upset because someone trolls you back.
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