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When is hate okay?
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
I dunno. There are people who hate blacks, and I'm not sure it's entirely possible to control the effects of hate which has been codified into law, or when an individual is unaware of the subconscious influnce their emotions have on their behavior. For instance, a sheriff (to be trite) might hate blacks but be steadfast in his belief in equality before the law, and nonetheless arrest more blacks for lesser crimes and/or charge them with greater crimes under similar circumstances. Which is why stereotypes are dangerous; more dangerous than hating your boss (who no one would expect you to be unbiased toward), or any single individual. In this example it's the unexamined nature of hate (stereotypes about race being inherently irrational) that leads to the negative consequence. Thus, I think hate can be justified (a person does something dangerous without regard for your safety, intentionally harms you or a loved one, etc) and unjustified (a person belongs to a class which you hate for irrational reasons).

ohh, you're right Embarassed

I was assuming that we were talking about 1-on-1 interactions. I kinda feel foolish that I wasn't clear about that. Although, I don't necessarily think of prejudice as 'hate', more of a mix of fear, ignorance (sometimes willfully maintained), and assumptions.
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: What if you let go your identity one day, what would you Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
I wonder what would happen in a society where all people strive to be victims.

Would we, at long last, have reached a state of acceptable tolerance?

Nah, we'd just get into pissing contests about who's been victimized more. Take a look at just about any chat forum to see the trend in action.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Re: I hate emotes. Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
Even physicists can be cranky old men who refuse to see change.


i really hate people who think scientists can't have human flaws.

also: emotes.
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Smooshie



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:28 am    Post subject: Re: What if you let go your identity one day, what would you Reply with quote

bitflipper wrote:
Thy Brilliance wrote:
I wonder what would happen in a society where all people strive to be victims.

Would we, at long last, have reached a state of acceptable tolerance?

Nah, we'd just get into pissing contests about who's been victimized more. Take a look at just about any chat forum to see the trend in action.

I've always wondered why it matters who gets oppressed more often. What do you stand to gain other than some false sense of martyrdom? I mean, you're still the one who's got it the worst out of a given group of people, so it's not like you have much to be happy about...
Besides that, it's not like we're asking who has it worse to figure out whose problems to solve first. A society where we all strive to be victims is a society where everything you say is immediately rebloggable. Laughing
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Although, I don't necessarily think of prejudice as 'hate', more of a mix of fear, ignorance (sometimes willfully maintained), and assumptions.

This is a claim that one would have to support with evidence! Typically prejudice is defined as simply positive or negative emotions toward one or more groups. So, you could be prejudiced against a group of people because you hate them or because you fear them, or both. Or some other negative emotion. Likewise, one can be prejudiced in favor of one's own group (that is, you favor in-group members over out-group members) which is prejudice based on the positive regard for one's own group. So it's a mildly complicated issue. Smile
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogen wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
Although, I don't necessarily think of prejudice as 'hate', more of a mix of fear, ignorance (sometimes willfully maintained), and assumptions.

This is a claim that one would have to support with evidence! Typically prejudice is defined as simply positive or negative emotions toward one or more groups. So, you could be prejudiced against a group of people because you hate them or because you fear them, or both. Or some other negative emotion. Likewise, one can be prejudiced in favor of one's own group (that is, you favor in-group members over out-group members) which is prejudice based on the positive regard for one's own group. So it's a mildly complicated issue. Smile

I'm speaking purely anecdotally here, but I don't think I'm totally wrong, but I'll add that I did forget the crucial component of anger in the mix. On the few chances I have gotten people to examine and discuss their 'hate, or more accurately their prejudice, it usually turns out to be some mixture of other things. I also think that by looking at prejudice as being a product of these things as opposed to actual hate, it makes dealing with them a more manageable task. And I suppose we're really talking about bigotry, not just prejudice.

It's that fine line between 'acting hateful towards' and actually 'having hatred for'; one can act peaceful, but not actually intend peace, one can act hopeful, but not actually feel hope. Lots of times we say 'I hate you' when we really mean 'I'm upset at you' or 'I'm angry at you' or 'I'm resentful towards you' or 'I'm _______ at you'; where the blank can be filled with various combinations of negative emotions. If you still feel the same when you're calm, and have thought about it rationally, then you're probably closer to hate. I think hate is more sort of a cold numbness.

I think true hate is more likely to prompt action, and that we can only, in most cases as outside observers, figure out the likelihood someone hates something or someone. I'm not saying determinations can't be made, but I think it requires a more detailed interaction with a person to figure out if they hate or not. Some are easier than others. The guy that seems 'normal', never uses epithets, yet secretly has stormfront as his homepage and is a paying member of a white supremacy group? Yeah, it's probably safe to assume they actually are full of hate. The bastard at work who openly uses various epithets and is loud and brash about it? Hard to call without really knowing more about them. The guy who occasionally uses an epithet when he's angry, gets upset if his daughter is dating 'one of them', yet gets defensive and claims he has 'minority friends' and rattles them off like a badge of pride? Probably fearful, ignorant, and making assumptions
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't say you were wrong, I said prejudice isn't only one or the other (so you were kind of wrong when you said you didn't think of prejudice as hate). It includes a variety of potential emotions (including both hate and fear, but also affection and regard and others), the net result of which is a set of prejudgements about a group. It's the prejudgement that defines prejudice, not the emotion.
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Smooshie



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
I'm not saying determinations can't be made, but I think it requires a more detailed interaction with a person to figure out if they hate or not.

But how can you be sure on the Internet? You don't really know anybody. Hard to know for sure whether someone is hateful or angry, right? So how should we go about handling them?
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