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More gun laws = fewer deaths, 50-state study says
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3315

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smooshie wrote:
. Granted, we've come a long way, but I don't think there's anything terribly wrong with the latter reason for having guns. It's only paranoia if nothing happens, right? Laughing

Anyway, that's my two cents. Feel free to disagree/call me a nutcase.


If it didn't seem to indicate that proliferation of guns = more gun deaths, primarily innocent victims it might make sense.

Mainly because no one in america is rich enough to afford the kind of weaponry that stops f16's and drones. The success of an american revolution is almost entirely based on which side the military falls on, because forgive me if I doubt the ability of our overweight, lazy, unused to real suffering, undereducated populace to take to the hills with their ar 15's and fight off the u.s. military.
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but, the 2nd Amendment guarantees me the right to own a frikkin' nuke, if I want it!

(Will someone please do us all the favor of shooting this down as the blatantly transparent attempt it is at derailing the discussion away from the validity of the study that Darq first posted? Thanking you in advance, --a self-averred gun-nut.)
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CTrees



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT: yeah, as I said, I find "LOL fighter jets!" to be an infuriating strawman. To the point that it got me riled up into writing things I regret. It's not why *I* am against civilian disarmament, so I need to stop jumping in and arguing it. Sorry.

As stated earlier, self-/home-defense is my primary concern. I *do* think I should be able to have the best tool for that job, and people trying to limit my ability to defend my family with laws that won't do a damn thing to limit the capabilities of criminals? That's a hard sell.
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Last edited by CTrees on Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seeing as how we have unmanned drones that are specifically designed to obviate the need for jackbooted thugs and in fact designed specifically to kill the exact sort of person who would meet the jackbooted thugs with an AR-15, it's not much of a strawman anymore and more of a missile launched from a robot that you can't see aimed straight at your argument's house.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

....
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. You really really cannot compare the syrian military to the U.S. military for one. We have 10 times the forces, and far far better tech and infrastructure.

2. Chris Dorner was actually a trained soldier so his ability to thwart people you would classify as better trained civilians only highlights my point. He was only one trained soldier.

3. Again, the battle of athens, Veterans vs better trained civilians, continues to highlight how important the support of the military would be for a citizen's rebellion.

4. Call it a straw man all you want, let me put it another way. The U.S. military has vastly superior firepower to every civilian gun in the states. They have access to air superiority, naval superiority and vehicles with armor that the best civilian gun on its best day would need to get exceedingly lucky to pierce. Add to this that they aren't fighting a war halfway across the globe with supply lines stretched to hell and back. Frankly, i think you overestimate your chances against a swat team with flashbangs and shotguns with that ar 15 anyway.

5.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

also, it should be known that Dorner evaded all those resources by hiding in a house fifty yards from their command center and not answering the door when they knocked. so unless the Argument From Dorner depends on the US military being just as toweringly incompetent as the LAPD, and unless it depends on people who fight the US military being as aware of its methods and incompetency as Dorner was of the LAPD, it still doesn't work.

Last edited by ShadowCell on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Smooshie



Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
seeing as how we have unmanned drones that are specifically designed to obviate the need for jackbooted thugs and in fact designed specifically to kill the exact sort of person who would meet the jackbooted thugs with an AR-15, it's not much of a strawman anymore and more of a missile launched from a robot that you can't see aimed straight at your argument's house.

I'm not really sure I can grasp the reasoning behind nobody removing the executive branch's ability to terminate civilians that have not been convicted of any crimes. I thought that was the CIA's job.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smooshie wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
seeing as how we have unmanned drones that are specifically designed to obviate the need for jackbooted thugs and in fact designed specifically to kill the exact sort of person who would meet the jackbooted thugs with an AR-15, it's not much of a strawman anymore and more of a missile launched from a robot that you can't see aimed straight at your argument's house.

I'm not really sure I can grasp the reasoning behind nobody removing the executive branch's ability to terminate civilians that have not been convicted of any crimes. I thought that was the CIA's job.

Whenever there'a decision made by a business, government, or any type of organization that simply seems to defy logic, even for it's constitutes, just remember, that somebody, somewhere, is probably benefiting from the outcomes of that decision.
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Kenshiro



Joined: 04 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every person should have the right to live within a nation and/or state that most closely coincides with their preferred way of life and/or preferred laws or lack of laws.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That seems like a swell, pie-in-the-sky idea. Not everyone has the means to move to such a state - assuming a state that matches them exists - nor is ideological match the only thing that might bind them to a location. Family, jobs, school, or even health care may make them relatively place-bound. I have a friend who loves WA, but has to move back to OH because she has an extremely rare heart condition and the guy who coined the name and is the leading expert on it happens to practice near her childhood home. So the ideological homology of her ideas and the state is probably secondary to her desire to get proper care.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kenshiro wrote:
Every person should have the right to live within a nation and/or state that most closely coincides with their preferred way of life and/or preferred laws or lack of laws.


My preferred way of life and preferred laws is to be a nation of savage conquerors who consider all land to be rightfully ours and outsiders to be unworthy of anything but slave labor and so our most sacrosanct way of life is to mobilize for endless war and take every other experimental ideology land over and put the population to work for us and remind our vassals that if they don't like it they can leave. at least as long as other nations exist.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alternate answer: this rights proposal isn't worth an inch of land on this planet. in most cases i would say it's the responsibility of an ethical world to prevent most ideologies from having even a square foot of soil.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen to that.
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Kenshiro



Joined: 04 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. How intolerant.
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