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3/9/13 Victim Blaming 4
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 1792
Location: im probably asleep right now

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
But, maybe my definition is stricter than others. The question--I guess--is whether or not THEY think of themselves as friends. I'm getting the feeling they don't, but I've been wrong before.


Nique certainly believes that they are friends, and knowing her she probably still does. Even when he says the stupidest shit imaginable, and she's hurt, or angry, at the end of the day she always ends up proving that yes. She believes that they're friends. And Slick does still like her as a friend, still, though he might feel that she doesn't consider him one anymore. Even if he misses the girl he USED to know, the girl Nique used to be.

they are currently seeking consolation from friends other than each other because they're not each others only friends, and right now they are both kind of upset with each other. Nique is upset because Slick is being insensitive, and pinning all of the blame on her. Slick is upset because not only is Nique not the same girl he met years ago, but because she's blowing off his advice.

they've been doing this for years. since the very beginning of their relationship. this isn't exactly new from each other. idk why it suddenly means they're not friends anymore just cuz Nique is all into preachin the feminism and stuff (which she always has done but now that she doesn't shake her bottom I guess it's not as acceptable anymore) but like whatever.

khan wrote:
I am too romantic to accept Slick giving up on what I see as his soulmate. They might not be on the same wavelength, but they could be. He needs to work harder, understand her new world view.

So yeah, I DO NOT see Slick giving up on Nique... let alone love.


do you not realize how creepy that is tho like

ok. maybe she's his soulmate. maybe she's not. but. guess what?

if you know me at all, you know i'm a huge romantic!!! pretty much 95% of my thoughts are romantic-centered. i love the idea of romance, i love the idea of two people meeting and falling in love and making each other better, i love the idea of two people having to come to understand each other and really get to know each other and solving differences and accidentally falling in love in the middle of it, i love the idea of true love and all that...

but the only way slick can ever mature, ever become a better person, grow, and actually learn to truly love anyone - especially nique - is to let go of her. he completely refuses to let himself get over someone who he has known for years, has openly acknowledged he does not have a chance with, has been given multiple chances with and has blown all of them, and has directly asked if they wanted to be in any kind of non-platonic relationship - knowing the answer would be no - and getting that exact answer. if he really, truly loved her, he would let her go. he would respect the fact that SHE DOES NOT WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM and not bother her with it again. sometimes he has accepted and respected the fact that she isn't interested, but then he always picks up where he left off and repeats the cicle again.

AND IT IS REALLY. FUCKING. UNHEALTHY.

a relationship you have to work hard at to even get into - have to work hard to get them to see you as a potential romantic partner, have to work hard to get them to LIKE you in a romantic or sexual way - is probably not a balanced relationship! which is probably not good for either parties.

he doesn't have to give up on love. he doesn't even have to give up on her forever. he just needs to let her go for now, grow up and realize that it's not about him. or what he wants. but namely, he needs to learn how to accept that which he cannot change. and what he cannot change is whether or not nique wants to be in a relationship with him. which she doesn't - not now. and maybe not ever - he needs to realize that's ok, without immediately going back to hitting on her afterwards.
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fritterdonut



Joined: 24 Jul 2012
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Location: Hedonism

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Dogen wrote:
That's a total obfuscation. Being sacred isn't mutually exclusive of encouraging rape, and if you can honestly claim that women during the middle ages weren't denied rights then you either have no idea what you're talking about or a definition of "rights" that's tighter than Rick Santorum at a Log Cabin meeting.

Is that a gay Lincoln joke?


The fact that this is somewhat relevant to my new avatar is precious beyond belief.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTN6Du3MCgI

Also I thought Lich Mong had left and now he's suddenly reappeared.
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lol



Joined: 16 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love Squig's inadvertent point here. The victim blaming seems even more absurd when you consider that Monique is literally just talking and the crowd responds with physical violence.
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Lich Mong



Joined: 31 May 2012
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Stop trying to make it happen, it's not going to happen. Reply with quote

Miss Magenta wrote:
Nique certainly believes that they are friends, and knowing her she probably still does. Even when he says the stupidest shit imaginable, and she's hurt, or angry, at the end of the day she always ends up proving that yes. She believes that they're friends. And Slick does still like her as a friend, still, though he might feel that she doesn't consider him one anymore. Even if he misses the girl he USED to know, the girl Nique used to be.
You're likely right about Monique thinking he is still her friend. Monique seems like the kind of person that would count anyone she does not despise at a "friend." She is not about to unfriend him from her facebook page, but she certainly would not call him a close friend; not someone she can trust, more of an acquaintance. That guy she bumps into every now and again who is not a total d-bag.

The other issue is that Slick always wanted to date her; I don't think he ever wanted to just be her "friend." He has shown an adverse to the "friend zone." They've never wanted the same thing out of the relationship.
Miss Magenta wrote:
they are currently seeking consolation from friends other than each other because they're not each others only friends, and right now they are both kind of upset with each other. Nique is upset because Slick is being insensitive, and pinning all of the blame on her. Slick is upset because not only is Nique not the same girl he met years ago, but because she's blowing off his advice.
I agree. This is why it's starting to remind me of Annie Hall.
The girl has evolved and the guy has not. However, I don't find anything wrong with that; it just means they need to see someone else. Slick needs to stop obsessing about the girl he almost got and find someone more his speed. (and I mean really date someone else, not just find someone to try and make Monique jealous)
Miss Magenta wrote:
they've been doing this for years. since the very beginning of their relationship. this isn't exactly new from each other. idk why it suddenly means they're not friends anymore just cuz Nique is all into preachin the feminism and stuff (which she always has done but now that she doesn't shake her bottom I guess it's not as acceptable anymore) but like whatever.
I don't feel they've been doing this for years. Its very different from that other strip about the same thing. Sure, in both Slick is telling Monique to knock it off and she is ignoring his advice. However, the TONE of the conversation is very different. Their interaction is very different. (Mainly, Slick is more in control of the conversation in that one. Monique is stronger in this current one.)

I agree with the rest of what you say. Slick needs to let Monique go, and should probably date someone else for a while. Someone who is not a robot, and more his size both mentally and physically.

I think we disagree on the finer points, Miss Magenta, but our solution to the perceived problem is the same. Slick needs to get over Monique, date someone else, and maybe grow a little in the process.
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Last edited by Lich Mong on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Dogen wrote:
That's a total obfuscation. Being sacred isn't mutually exclusive of encouraging rape, and if you can honestly claim that women during the middle ages weren't denied rights then you either have no idea what you're talking about or a definition of "rights" that's tighter than Rick Santorum at a Log Cabin meeting.

Is that a gay Lincoln joke?

No, it's a Log Cabin Republicans reference.
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ktern wrote:
Smooshie wrote:
khan wrote:


So yeah, I DO NOT see Slick giving up on Nique... let alone love.


But what about 'Nique giving up on Slick? There's no use in chasing after someone if they've given up on you.


kinda true, but that's the central relationship in this work of fiction. or it used to be. i guess with how disjointed the strip has gotten (in the sense that it has like... 5 or so storylines that just occasionally bump into each other) it isn't a huge loss if they really separate, but i'd be surprised if that lasts

This. I have to agree. While their conceived "relationship" may get pushed back farther, this is a fight at most. Sure, they can get mad, get estranged from one another, but in the end, they'll probably eventually try to find one another again and reconcile. In fact, in this case, Slick is actually pondering the effects of their fight. And Nique needed a hug. The hug could be for her day, but I think having a fight with Slick probably added to it. That shows they're probably not about to stop being friends.

But in any series, if the relationship is the focus, there has to be some shake-ups. The T.V. show Friends? They got them together only to have them hate each other for a while after their break-up and fight. Other shows? Same thing. Relationships get strained in fiction, because they do in real life. Maybe not so dramatically, but they do at times. That's often the time people grow.

Also, as for this strip...Squig's responses were hilarious!
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Jonin



Joined: 04 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunember123 wrote:
I don't think Slick and 'Nique worldviews are that different. I've never seen Slick criticize 'Nique for being a feminist, nor did I see Monique call Slick out for being a dudebro. In my mind, they respect each other's way of life.
Slick's victim blaming was born out of the fact that he sees Monique being tomatoed, and actually worries about her like that. Sure, it's wrong, but 'Nique could have resolved it in a less extreme way.
Their relationship may be strained now, but it's not beyond saving.


Pretty much. Slick's concerned and he has a point. That kind of thing can and will get a reaction out of people.

Unfortunately that came across as "This is your fault. This happened because of what you did. You're in the wrong." to Nique. And well we saw what happened.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just want to point out that a lot of people here are inferring an awful lot about what Slick really meant without any real evidence to back it up.

Most of the justifications boil down to "you brought it on yourself" which is pretty much the textbook definition of victim blaming.
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Gibson22



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smooshie wrote:
Either they are too attractive and others are intimidated, or they are really awful and nobody wants to date them. Alternatively, they may be waiting for someone to make the first move. There's a lot of girls from southern Asia in my school, and a lot of them have "traditional" values, so they always wait for a guy to make the first move. I've had so many girls ask me why so and so isn't talking to them and I ask why they don't just talk themselves, and they invariably say something along these lines: "no, that'd be weird," or, "no, I don't want to make the first move," or, "why would I do that?". It may be a bit presumptuous of me to say that it is a cultural thing (lots of American-born white females have similar reasoning), but yeaaaah. People are funny like that. Laughing

Of course, you have the right to pursue or wait as you please, but if you choose to wait, I don't think you have the right to complain if someone doesn't make a move.


Nah, I don't think it's presumptuous. I think you are right. Very Happy And you are totally right about either one not wanting to make the move. That's the same thing here a lot and even in my church. People just don't want that rejection. I remember realizing that the guys who did the best were either super confident because they were already pretty awesome, or they were rejected enough where the fear didn't stop them from trying. XD

And then again...I do have a friend who just tries over and over again and always fails. O_O But he always tries to do the rude approach.
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, rejection sucks. But, on the other hand, y'know what they say: "You can't win the game if you don't play."


...a-a-and, I just made everybody lose The Game, didn't I?
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Rothide



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Just want to point out that a lot of people here are inferring an awful lot about what Slick really meant without any real evidence to back it up.

Most of the justifications boil down to "you brought it on yourself" which is pretty much the textbook definition of victim blaming.


But how many times can the victim do the same action, without soon being "you did bring this on yourself"

Monique has seen the pattern, she does this act, the dudebro's throw crap at her. When is it victim blaming and when does it boil down to, "your just being dumb" even Paul finally decided that after the Jews became to hardened to the message, it was time to go to the gentiles.

Now I'm not saying that what she is DOING is dumb, I just think it's dumb to mope that someone threw tomatoes at you that has a history of throwing tomatoes at you. Yeah it sucks, but she should think of the people that DID listen to her message, not the others.
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, dude, women should really stop speaking up for themselves. When will they learn it just gets them a smack in the mouth?
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
But how many times can the victim do the same action, without soon being "you did bring this on yourself"

Is this irony?
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Lich Mong



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the issue is "a time and a place."
But, since we don't really know anything specific about where Monique does this, it's hard to say definitively if she is being inappropriate. While unlikely, the clubs name could be "We Throw Tomatos at You" or something.

However, since we can assume the author is sympathetic with Monique we can assume that the people throwing tomato's should knock it off, and that Monique is just exercising her first amendment rights. I mean, if you can't punch Westminster Baptist Church protesters in the face without getting sued, then Monique should be allowed to say what she wants.

She might be "bringing it upon herself" by her repeated actions, but she still has more of a right to speak than they do to throw tomatos.
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On a different topic, is it me or is Slick's character more or less completely defined by his interaction with Monique? I was trying to think what the little guy could do to met women, but it seems to me his hobbies and interests seem to be solely be defined by his relationship with Monique. Other than her, he just has generic "guy" interests like sports and porn.

He needs to get out more and be less 2D.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lich Mong wrote:
she still has more of a right to speak than they do to throw tomatos.

This is the only correct response to that situation. The only one.
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