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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Bart



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 1572

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
Sam wrote:
man, there's a rape culture problem across the whole goddamned world. steubenville, as fucking horrible as it is, pales in comparison to almost anywhere else in the entire world short of the pathetic handful of nations that you could call a semi-good role model or at least a slightly less intense rape culture state than ours

but the rest of the world beyond that puts steubenville to shame. Middle east, brazil, eastern europe, africa, central america, russia, india, et cetera, world is terrible

I've been confused about the Steubensville affair being associated with rape culture. Wouldn't it be more accurate, and overall helpful to the conversation, to look at it as part of an even bigger problem? It's probably 'cuz Im tired, but what would be the terms and ideas that cover this? By 'this' i mean the attitudes towards these "good boys" who had their "lives ruined", the ideas that certain roles or statuses are outside of or above the laws of us common folk. Or am I just misunderstanding how the term 'rape culture' can be applied?


It seems that you are saying that "rape culture" is just one instance of a culture where certain social groups are allowed to victimize other groups that are lower on the ladder. I don't disagree with that, however, the conclusion that you draw from that is that we shouldn't focus on rape culture in particular, but on the general problem is flawed. Targeting a specific problem within a larger group is certainly a valid strategy. Specifically if, as in this case, the specific problem of rape culture is one of, if not the, most destructive instance of that general problem.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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Location: A false vacuum abiding in ignorance.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, but I'm not dismissing Rape culture or a need to address it, I'm asking "What do we call this general problem?"
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we call it "rape culture"
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But calling it "rape culture is too exclusive. The idea that people in a certain status or role are granted extra-legal rights and/or are held to different morals and values GREATLY extends beyond rape culture. What i'm talking about doesn't have to do specifically with women or rape or objectification or even victim blaming.

As bart put it:
Quote:
It seems that you are saying that "rape culture" is just one instance of a culture where certain social groups are allowed to victimize other groups that are lower on the ladder


I'm saying it seems like rape culture is a single manifestation of some sort of greater moral failing.
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just read this cracked article ( http://www.cracked.com/article_19785_5-ways-modern-men-are-trained-to-hate-women.html ) and I need a bit of help decoding it.

I feel it "right" most of the time, but I think it has a strange smell sometimes. Opinions?
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Kjralon



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
we call it "rape culture"


lolol
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 6436

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want any kind of meaningful conversation about something you should probably come at us with something more substantial than the 'smell' of a digital article.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it smells like pixels

also it has a vaguely MRA-ish kind of tone to it but to be honest it's Cracked so what do you expect
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12177
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skimmed over it, but the political cartoon caught my eye.

A good cartoonist working with a "public" figure has to make the representation exaggerated but recognizable. In order to caricature a person, you have to look for qualities that the subject actually has which may be distinctive, and magnify them selectively.
This is what Sandra Fluke (left) looks like.
This is how she was caricatured.
Except for hair color and skin tone, there is no visual resemblance. Perhaps a case could be made for the nose. The Georgetown shirt is the only thing that ties the caricature to Fluke.

In terms of what the real Sandra Fluke testified in favor of and what the cartoon demands, there's no similarity. She wanted the university's private insurance to cover hormonal therapies that include preventative treatment for ovarian cysts, not for the government to pay for birth control. And it goes without saying that the second panel of the comic is simply echoing Limbaught's sick fantasies.

Not only could the cartoonist not get Fluke's policy position, arguments, or demeanor right, he couldn't even draw her; something that's essential for a cartoonist esp. when lampooning public figures. That's pretty much a total divorce from reality in one comic.
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I concurr with the article most of the time, but at some paragraphs I feel he is saying "don't blame us, is our penis!" and so. I want not be more specific because I dont want to biase you with my ideas. At some point, I am here to learn and have fun, two things I will do reading your opinions.

No hidden trap here, Samsally, I promise.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I think "reason 1" is pretty terrible. I don't generally assume all men are sex crazed idiots by design.

He presents a lot of examples that prove yes, something definitely isn't right, but as it's written in a way that talks to a female audience it just sort of ends in a sad little apology. It gives the impression that "sorry, i guess this is just how things are".

I dunno, I'd probably be insulted if I was a guy. He obviously isn't talking to a male audience, he's just piling excuses on a female one.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

towards the end the article is less "ways modern men are trained to hate women" and more "reasons modern men have for hating women"

like our unstoppable raging boners that you femalefolk thoughtlessly excite at all times! it is an outrage.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3397
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked some of it, but then it got into "Men just think about sex all the time and inappropriate behavior is because of that, not other problems." Because dudes who masturbate in public are only horny, not fucked up.

If you can't help it, you need intervention. When people can't help committing crimes, they are locked up (With varying degrees of justice dependent on the level of corruption in the justice system.) So it's a bad argument to say, "I rape and also masturbate in public and do other illegal, horrible things - and nothing will ever fix that," then you are asking people to please put you away for your sake and the sake of all around you.
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, is like at the end the author lost the focus, right?

I said the "smell" because I thim he is right at most of the points, but the way he tolds, is a bit victimizing, switching from "they made us feel" to "we feel"
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
Yeah, I think "reason 1" is pretty terrible. I don't generally assume all men are sex crazed idiots by design.

He presents a lot of examples that prove yes, something definitely isn't right, but as it's written in a way that talks to a female audience it just sort of ends in a sad little apology. It gives the impression that "sorry, i guess this is just how things are".

I dunno, I'd probably be insulted if I was a guy. He obviously isn't talking to a male audience, he's just piling excuses on a female one.

I think he's failing to make some important necessary conclusions. It should be something more like:
A 13-21 year old male is VERY likely, if not usually, a sex crazed idiot and patriarchal society has essentially allowed for this immature mentality to be maintained into adulthood and viewed as not only 'normal', but also socially acceptable.

Or something like that. I think that's what he's trying to get at, and would probably agree with, but I'm not sure.
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