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More gun laws = fewer deaths, 50-state study says
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bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Why the fuck does everyone act like "oh well i'll just hit them with a blunt object in the head and they'll die" is some foregone conclusion.

Speaking for myself: because I know how much force a 200-lb, fairly fit man whose been in industrial engineering most of his career and who builds carpentry projects, does a touch of blacksmithing, and digs up, cuts, and polishes stone as hobbies can generate when he gets something a couple feet long and weighing ten to twenty pounds in his hands. Flesh and bone won't stand up well, against it.

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
If hitting someone with a bat was equally lethal to shooting them with a gun, I suspect our army would be outfitted with more bats.

I thought the intruder was a drunk, unarmed teenager too blitzed to realize that the alarm he set off is a strong indication that he tried to sneak in through the wrong window and he should get his butt back out of the wrong house. He's now got a gun? O-kay, then it'll probably be two of us headed to the hospital and/or morgue with severe injuries. And you've just given every "home defense" owner of a handgun all the justification they've been claiming all along for why they need to keep a loaded, hand-held piece of field artillery under their pillow with a round in the chamber.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you about whether or not you could pop someones skull with a what the fuck ever you grabbed in one fell swing. Because I don't care.

Bat =/= as deadly as a gun, there is less chance of a tragic accident if you're armed with some blunt object than if you're firing a gun at shape in a darkened room. With a bat you might just have to get close enough to realize its a drunk neighbor kid and not some dude in a ski mask robbing you. Use of a firearm is an immediate escalation to a lethal confrontation when in many cases it doesn't have to be. And its basically the behavior of a people so scared of one another they're living in a constant state of pants shitting fear and any nod toward the idea that these very dangerous weapons should have some standard of training, care, and oversight sets off a tizzy of opposition. This despite the fact that year after year after year irresponsible assholes shoot and kill other innocent or generally harmless people, and every time it's treated as an isolated tragic accident rather than the real problem. That there are too many people too irresponsible with dangerous weapons derping around this country.
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The Peanut Gallery



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That story was absolutely chilling because something similar happened to me. I was driving through my hometown and called my family to say I'd be spending the night. I talked to my sister, but she didn't tell my parents. I think I got in at 2 am. The next morning my mom went to leave for work didn't recognize my spouse's car in the driveway (it's a bland generic looking car and it was before sunrise). She almost called the cops. My dad was in fact hunting through the house trying to find the "potential axe murderer" (her words). I thought, and still think the whole situation was hilarious.

But could my parents have mistaken me in a darkened room for an intruder and killed me? Defending their daughter from a midnight rapist because I was sneaking into the back bedrooms in the middle of the night?

Or what about this guy? http://abcnews.go.com/US/gps-mistake-allegedly-leads-deadly-driveway-shooting/story?id=18346144

Same story, just without the alcohol and less blame to pile on the victim.

As a side note, you say there's no way to set a gun to stun, but there's non-lethal rounds. There's tasers. There's paint ball guns. If I ever felt unsafe in my own house, I would flat out move. But assuming that wasn't an option, that's how I would defend myself.

I really really wish I knew the circumstances of that teen getting shot, because I can't help but imagine the neighbor shooting him in the back or while the poor kid was just standing there staring at him blankly wondering what the strange man was doing coming out of his parents bedroom.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
that someone will likely die of a severe head injury as I bash them over the noggin with the first piece of furniture I can lay my hands on. They won't have the chance to identify themselves, because I'll be swinging the instant that door opens.


Quote:
Speaking for myself: because I know how much force a 200-lb, fairly fit man whose been in industrial engineering most of his career and who builds carpentry projects, does a touch of blacksmithing, and digs up, cuts, and polishes stone as hobbies can generate when he gets something a couple feet long and weighing ten to twenty pounds in his hands. Flesh and bone won't stand up well, against it.


Yeah, dude, no. You could be mike tyson with a lead pipe and the odds that you would defensively kill someone with non-penetrative trauma from a strike to the head is pretty damn low. Orders of magnitude lower than scenario resolution wherein you shoot them.

unless you have some sort of magic power to ensure a significant enough epidural hematoma on the first strike you really don't know what you're talking about? I don't even know what this is supposed to assert re: home invader theory
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Quote:
that someone will likely die of a severe head injury as I bash them over the noggin with the first piece of furniture I can lay my hands on. They won't have the chance to identify themselves, because I'll be swinging the instant that door opens.


Quote:
Speaking for myself: because I know how much force a 200-lb, fairly fit man whose been in industrial engineering most of his career and who builds carpentry projects, does a touch of blacksmithing, and digs up, cuts, and polishes stone as hobbies can generate when he gets something a couple feet long and weighing ten to twenty pounds in his hands. Flesh and bone won't stand up well, against it.


Yeah, dude, no. You could be mike tyson with a lead pipe and the odds that you would defensively kill someone with non-penetrative trauma from a strike to the head is pretty damn low. Orders of magnitude lower than scenario resolution wherein you shoot them.

unless you have some sort of magic power to ensure a significant enough epidural hematoma on the first strike you really don't know what you're talking about? I don't even know what this is supposed to assert re: home invader theory


Its the same mistaken thinking that goes on and on about how criminals will just kill people with knives or rocks or bats or bombs, despite the fact that it's actually far harder to accomplish than use of a gun.
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Dogen



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like all people, he has perfect aim. That's why everyone is good at baseball. We always hit exactly what we intend.
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Yorick



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanna know why there aren't more semiautomatic blunt objects.
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fritterdonut



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/23/17424964-teen-shot-dead-after-sneaking-into-wrong-home-following-party

Quote:
Earlier Thursday, authorities had said the homeowner had called 911, warned Gordley verbally and fired a warning shot before firing the shots that struck and killed the teen.


Quote:
According to the sheriff's department, the homeowner had come to investigate the alarm when he encountered someone on the stairs leading to the second floor.

The homeowner "gave verbal warnings and discharged the firearm as a warning," according to a statement issued by the sheriff's department Thursday afternoon.

But the teen continued up the stairwell and into a hallway. The homeowner shot at the teen, and struck him once in the left shoulder as he passed the homeowner in the hallway and walked toward an upstairs bedroom that was occupied by other residents of the home. They will not close their investigation until the final medical examiner's report is complete.


For clarification.

He must have been pretty amazingly drunk if he didn't respond to the burglar alarm, verbal warnings, and a warning shot.

EDIT:
The Peanut Gallery wrote:
There's paint ball guns


Take this from someone who worked at a paintball field. Don't try to defend yourself with a paintball gun.
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Last edited by fritterdonut on Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: calling intolerance mature is the only magic in this thread. Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Sam wrote:
Quote:
that someone will likely die of a severe head injury as I bash them over the noggin with the first piece of furniture I can lay my hands on. They won't have the chance to identify themselves, because I'll be swinging the instant that door opens.


Quote:
Speaking for myself: because I know how much force a 200-lb, fairly fit man whose been in industrial engineering most of his career and who builds carpentry projects, does a touch of blacksmithing, and digs up, cuts, and polishes stone as hobbies can generate when he gets something a couple feet long and weighing ten to twenty pounds in his hands. Flesh and bone won't stand up well, against it.


Yeah, dude, no. You could be mike tyson with a lead pipe and the odds that you would defensively kill someone with non-penetrative trauma from a strike to the head is pretty damn low. Orders of magnitude lower than scenario resolution wherein you shoot them.

unless you have some sort of magic power to ensure a significant enough epidural hematoma on the first strike you really don't know what you're talking about? I don't even know what this is supposed to assert re: home invader theory


Its the same mistaken thinking that goes on and on about how criminals will just kill people with knives or rocks or bats or bombs, despite the fact that it's actually far harder to accomplish than use of a gun.



Falling down and striking your head on the ground is one of the most common causes of epidural hematoma.

It really isn't that hard to generate the force needed to ensure epidural hematoma.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Re: calling intolerance mature is the only magic in this thr Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Sam wrote:
Quote:
that someone will likely die of a severe head injury as I bash them over the noggin with the first piece of furniture I can lay my hands on. They won't have the chance to identify themselves, because I'll be swinging the instant that door opens.


Quote:
Speaking for myself: because I know how much force a 200-lb, fairly fit man whose been in industrial engineering most of his career and who builds carpentry projects, does a touch of blacksmithing, and digs up, cuts, and polishes stone as hobbies can generate when he gets something a couple feet long and weighing ten to twenty pounds in his hands. Flesh and bone won't stand up well, against it.


Yeah, dude, no. You could be mike tyson with a lead pipe and the odds that you would defensively kill someone with non-penetrative trauma from a strike to the head is pretty damn low. Orders of magnitude lower than scenario resolution wherein you shoot them.

unless you have some sort of magic power to ensure a significant enough epidural hematoma on the first strike you really don't know what you're talking about? I don't even know what this is supposed to assert re: home invader theory


Its the same mistaken thinking that goes on and on about how criminals will just kill people with knives or rocks or bats or bombs, despite the fact that it's actually far harder to accomplish than use of a gun.



Falling down and striking your head on the ground is one of the most common causes of epidural hematoma.

It really isn't that hard to generate the force needed to ensure epidural hematoma.


It takes more force than it does to pull a trigger and blow a hole through someone.
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:40 pm    Post subject: Re: calling intolerance mature is the only magic in this thr Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Thy Brilliance wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Sam wrote:
Quote:
that someone will likely die of a severe head injury as I bash them over the noggin with the first piece of furniture I can lay my hands on. They won't have the chance to identify themselves, because I'll be swinging the instant that door opens.


Quote:
Speaking for myself: because I know how much force a 200-lb, fairly fit man whose been in industrial engineering most of his career and who builds carpentry projects, does a touch of blacksmithing, and digs up, cuts, and polishes stone as hobbies can generate when he gets something a couple feet long and weighing ten to twenty pounds in his hands. Flesh and bone won't stand up well, against it.


Yeah, dude, no. You could be mike tyson with a lead pipe and the odds that you would defensively kill someone with non-penetrative trauma from a strike to the head is pretty damn low. Orders of magnitude lower than scenario resolution wherein you shoot them.

unless you have some sort of magic power to ensure a significant enough epidural hematoma on the first strike you really don't know what you're talking about? I don't even know what this is supposed to assert re: home invader theory


Its the same mistaken thinking that goes on and on about how criminals will just kill people with knives or rocks or bats or bombs, despite the fact that it's actually far harder to accomplish than use of a gun.



Falling down and striking your head on the ground is one of the most common causes of epidural hematoma.

It really isn't that hard to generate the force needed to ensure epidural hematoma.


It takes more force than it does to pull a trigger and blow a hole through someone.


It also takes more force to bicycle to work everyday as opposed to just keeping your foot on the gas, nevertheless, people still do it.

Nothing wrong with a little exercise.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what exactly is the point of your interjection.

I point out that it takes more effort to kill someone with a blunt object than to shoot them, giving many opportunities to avert tragic accidents.

You point out that people can die from falling over.

Does this continue until we pinpoint the exact amount of force per square inch it takes to kill someone by striking them in the head? Cause none of what you said contradicted anything I said above. It's just you being vaguely confrontational. Am I going to be your new Sam since he doesn't post as much anymore? Cause i don't think i can fill those shoes buddy.
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Thy Brilliance



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
So what exactly is the point of your interjection.

I point out that it takes more effort to kill someone with a blunt object than to shoot them, giving many opportunities to avert tragic accidents.

You point out that people can die from falling over.

Does this continue until we pinpoint the exact amount of force per square inch it takes to kill someone by striking them in the head? Cause none of what you said contradicted anything I said above. It's just you being vaguely confrontational. Am I going to be your new Sam since he doesn't post as much anymore? Cause i don't think i can fill those shoes buddy.


I'm telling you that your point is irrelevant.

So it takes more force. Big fucking deal.

You avert tragedies by having a house that is secure, not by owning fucking weapons.

If you are at the point where you need a weapon to defend yourself you have already screwed up beyond belief.

PS: Technically, I post less than Sam, and this really has nothing to do with him, I quoted you, not him.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear some teen stumbled drunkenly into Thy's house and was bludgeoned to death with a blunt skull.
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