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More gun laws = fewer deaths, 50-state study says
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3316

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://swampland.time.com/2013/01/16/your-brain-in-a-shootout-guns-fear-and-flawed-instincts/
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3572
Location: Relative

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

fritterdonut wrote:
Well, unless you live in a bunker, there's always going to be a way in. Hell, you can get into a bunker if you take a cutting torch to the door.

Anything can be broken into with enough determination, time, and tools.

Obviously thieves pick the easier houses to break into, doors or windows unlocked, windows not barred, single deadbolt doors, etc. But you can't make a house that is impossible to break in to.


The innocent aren't that determined to get in the wrong house.

If the window had been locked we wouldn't even have had this discussion.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3572
Location: Relative

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Re: calling intolerance mature is the only magic in this thr Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
Thy Brilliance wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Sam wrote:
Quote:
that someone will likely die of a severe head injury as I bash them over the noggin with the first piece of furniture I can lay my hands on. They won't have the chance to identify themselves, because I'll be swinging the instant that door opens.


Quote:
Speaking for myself: because I know how much force a 200-lb, fairly fit man whose been in industrial engineering most of his career and who builds carpentry projects, does a touch of blacksmithing, and digs up, cuts, and polishes stone as hobbies can generate when he gets something a couple feet long and weighing ten to twenty pounds in his hands. Flesh and bone won't stand up well, against it.


Yeah, dude, no. You could be mike tyson with a lead pipe and the odds that you would defensively kill someone with non-penetrative trauma from a strike to the head is pretty damn low. Orders of magnitude lower than scenario resolution wherein you shoot them.

unless you have some sort of magic power to ensure a significant enough epidural hematoma on the first strike you really don't know what you're talking about? I don't even know what this is supposed to assert re: home invader theory


Its the same mistaken thinking that goes on and on about how criminals will just kill people with knives or rocks or bats or bombs, despite the fact that it's actually far harder to accomplish than use of a gun.



Falling down and striking your head on the ground is one of the most common causes of epidural hematoma.

It really isn't that hard to generate the force needed to ensure epidural hematoma.


Well yes and no. It is indeed easy to generate enough force for that. But that doesn't mean it's easy to kill someone with a baseball bat in this situation. It's dark, you have to aim quickly and the guy will most likely shield himself somewhat.


Hide behind a door and wait.
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Thy Brilliance



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3572
Location: Relative

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: I want to understand you. Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Thy Brilliance wrote:

Falling down and striking your head on the ground is one of the most common causes of epidural hematoma.

It really isn't that hard to generate the force needed to ensure epidural hematoma.


Yeah, so what percentage of times wherein someone falls to the ground and strikes their head do they get a fatal epidural hematoma

pre-emptive answer: way the fuck less than the percentage of times a person will die when shot

irrelevant derail over



I thought the goal was to AVOID killing the innocent civilian while maintaining your own safety.

You seem to think that killing someone is the safest way to protect yourself.


Sam wrote:
Quote:
calling intolerance mature is the only magic in this thread.


It sure is, and I could have taken out a loan on the guarantee that you would not have understood


Hey, I'm but a humble student, and you're the master.

If you've got some esoteric magic logic to defend that trainwreck, I'm perfectly willing to listen to it.

It's kinda rude to assume I won't understand something without even attempting to explain it.

I really wonder what state of mind you'd have to be in or what sort of experiences you've had to have in order to feel that way.
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Sam



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 9551

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: I want to understand you. Reply with quote

Thy Brilliance wrote:

I thought the goal was to AVOID killing the innocent civilian while maintaining your own safety.

You seem to think that killing someone is the safest way to protect yourself.


Then you're completely missing the point. I'm not even remotely talking about what the safest way to protect yourself is, I'm talking about how "I would have killed him with a furniture leg all the same" is bogus logic. Bitflipper was talking about how a hypothetical intruder in his case would be subject to equivalent death from head injury, and I pointed out that non-penetrative trauma doesn't work that way and that the resolution of said hypothetical combat is greatly less likely to result in someone dead, even if they come right through the door and you get a clean whack at their skull.

If they walk through the door and you shoot them, they are greatly more likely to die.


Quote:
It's kinda rude to assume I won't understand something without even attempting to explain it.

I really wonder what state of mind you'd have to be in or what sort of experiences you've had to have in order to feel that way.


You put a little one-off comment about it in the post subject in that annoying way you have. This is not the same as saying "Please explain this to me," so not understanding dismissive pithiness in response is just you being you.

Quote:
Hey, I'm but a humble student, and you're the master.

If you've got some esoteric magic logic to defend that trainwreck, I'm perfectly willing to listen to it. /


It's not esoteric and it's not magic. Do you know what it's in response to? Do you know what proposal it is competing against?
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Mindslicer



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1846
Location: North of the People's Republic of Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
mouse wrote:
i agree stupidity shouldn't be a death sentence (although it is, for a lot of different sorts of death).

but really - try to put yourself in the place of the homeowner. he is awakened in the middle of the night by strange noise, comes downstairs to find - well, we don't know if it was a random shape or an identifiably human one, but one he knew had no business being there. and as i have said before - if you find a stranger in your house in the middle of the night, which is it really more likely to be - a lost, drunk teenager, or someone with intent to rob, rape or otherwise injure you? what are the consequences if you assume an intruder is harmless, or that you can handle him, and he isn't and you can't?

seriously - if you were in that position, what would be your first thought? what would you do?


Don't even have to think about it as i HAVE been in that situation, or one very similar. Seven or eight years back i lived in a shitty apartment in a shittier part of town. I think it was a friday because it wasn't normally a day off for me but i had it off for some reason. Anyway one night I heard a window opening while i was half asleep in bed at like 3 am. I assumed my roommate was just opening his window or shutting it but when i rolled over and blearily opened my eyes there was some dudes knee , in the window, which was about a foot above the bed and my face.

I shouted...hey....HEY MOTHERFUCKER...and rolled out of bed, and grabbed the nearest blunt object.. The dude jumped, fell backwards out of the window, hit the ground and took off.

Surprisingly, even though he likely had malice, a confrontation was had in the states where some chickenshit didn't pull out a gun because he lived in constant fear, and as a result no one died.


What would you have done if the guy had ignored your verbal warning? Because that's apparently what the teen who was shot did. Apparently the homeowner wasn't 'shooting at random shapes' as you previously asserted.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12237
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: I want to understand you. Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Then you're completely missing the point.

I think all you fucks missed the point:

WheelsOfConfusion wrote:
I hear some teen stumbled drunkenly into Thy's house and was bludgeoned to death with a blunt skull.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3316

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mindslicer wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
mouse wrote:
i agree stupidity shouldn't be a death sentence (although it is, for a lot of different sorts of death).

but really - try to put yourself in the place of the homeowner. he is awakened in the middle of the night by strange noise, comes downstairs to find - well, we don't know if it was a random shape or an identifiably human one, but one he knew had no business being there. and as i have said before - if you find a stranger in your house in the middle of the night, which is it really more likely to be - a lost, drunk teenager, or someone with intent to rob, rape or otherwise injure you? what are the consequences if you assume an intruder is harmless, or that you can handle him, and he isn't and you can't?

seriously - if you were in that position, what would be your first thought? what would you do?


Don't even have to think about it as i HAVE been in that situation, or one very similar. Seven or eight years back i lived in a shitty apartment in a shittier part of town. I think it was a friday because it wasn't normally a day off for me but i had it off for some reason. Anyway one night I heard a window opening while i was half asleep in bed at like 3 am. I assumed my roommate was just opening his window or shutting it but when i rolled over and blearily opened my eyes there was some dudes knee , in the window, which was about a foot above the bed and my face.

I shouted...hey....HEY MOTHERFUCKER...and rolled out of bed, and grabbed the nearest blunt object.. The dude jumped, fell backwards out of the window, hit the ground and took off.

Surprisingly, even though he likely had malice, a confrontation was had in the states where some chickenshit didn't pull out a gun because he lived in constant fear, and as a result no one died.


What would you have done if the guy had ignored your verbal warning? Because that's apparently what the teen who was shot did. Apparently the homeowner wasn't 'shooting at random shapes' as you previously asserted.


I'd have probably beat him with whatever it was I grabbed, i think it was some practice bokken a prior roommate had left behind. And he still probably wouldn't have been dead.
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Samsally



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

North Dakota... no. Just stop. Stahp.
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WheelsOfConfusion



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 12237
Location: Unknown Kaddath

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samsally wrote:
North Dakota... no. Just stop. Stahp.

Quote:
The Rev. Will Page, associate professor of Cornerstone Baptist Church, says he's worried that people with evil intentions may target churches because they know members of the congregation are not armed.

Hey, you never know when innocent chruchgoers might be ushered to their pews by a rabid doctor who needs to be put down to protect everybody else, right?
Besides, everybody knows Jesus was all about killing people who threatened you, and making yourself so heavily armed that nobody would even think of trying.
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Silent Dissonance



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.feministe.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/bushmaster_desktop_1024x768.jpg

Just Saying...
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bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
Posts: 728
Location: Here and Now

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arkhron wrote:
http://www.feministe.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/bushmaster_desktop_1024x768.jpg

Just Saying...

403'd. Not allowed to hear what you're saying, apparently.
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WheelsOfConfusion



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Access to Bushmaster wallpaper forbidden! Damn you, gun control laws!
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://kurtisscaletta.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/bushmaster-man-card-banner.jpg?w=660

Aaaand now?
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