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2013-03-24: Fembot Factory 2
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diagram12345



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 160

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wobster109 wrote:
I feel very strange about the whole fembot arc. I feel like I sort of know what it's trying to say, that women shouldn't be perceived as objects, that owning/producing fembots perpetuates that sort of thinking, etc.

In real life, I'm a girl with an unacceptable fetish who doesn't expect to ever live it out in real life. At this point, I can't ask anyone to play-act with me because my own embarrassment prevents me from enjoying it. One of my dreams is to own a CandyGirl doll someday. It's because I want to play out my fantasies without involving anyone, without forcing it all upon a real person.

The fembot arc feels like a personal rebuke to me: I'm supporting an industry that's hurting women and so forth. I haven't thought too hard about it. I never chose my fetishes. I don't want to give up on as close to fulfilling my fantasy as I'll ever get.


Looked up CandyGirl dolls. Wow, those are well-made. 0_0

You shouldn't have to feel ashamed -- you certainly aren't hurting anyone.
Personally I see nothing wrong with things like porn and sex dolls; what's bad is when you start dehumanizing people because of them. It certainly doesn't sound like you're doing that. =)
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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
...Should we still call her Fembot, considering that the comic already featured the mass produced Fembots?


Technically you could all her Rogue because she's a Rogue Fembot.
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lol



Joined: 16 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phox wrote:
lol wrote:

Who did they kill?


Year 2012 remember? Xanthe hit the self destruct?

He hit the self-destruct button himself, albeit on accident. Xanthe only activated a tracking device: she didn't kill him.

Was that the only example? It's pretty clear you're going out of your way to demonize The Sisterhood here. You're naming things they didn't even do.
wobster109 wrote:
I feel very strange about the whole fembot arc. I feel like I sort of know what it's trying to say, that women shouldn't be perceived as objects, that owning/producing fembots perpetuates that sort of thinking, etc.

In real life, I'm a girl with an unacceptable fetish who doesn't expect to ever live it out in real life. At this point, I can't ask anyone to play-act with me because my own embarrassment prevents me from enjoying it. One of my dreams is to own a CandyGirl doll someday. It's because I want to play out my fantasies without involving anyone, without forcing it all upon a real person.

The fembot arc feels like a personal rebuke to me: I'm supporting an industry that's hurting women and so forth. I haven't thought too hard about it. I never chose my fetishes. I don't want to give up on as close to fulfilling my fantasy as I'll ever get.

Honestly, I don't think the fembots are meant as a literal critique of the sex toy industry. It's more of a representation of gender constructs.

Also, you'd be surprised at the number of people who may share the same fetish as you. Just might have to look for them. There's nothing wrong with consenting adults engaging in fantasy with each other.
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Hydro



Joined: 21 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every time I see the fembot I think of the one Mr. Universe had in the film Serenity. That one didn't become self-aware but it always comes to mind.
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diagram12345 wrote:
wobster109 wrote:
I feel very strange about the whole fembot arc. I feel like I sort of know what it's trying to say, that women shouldn't be perceived as objects, that owning/producing fembots perpetuates that sort of thinking, etc.

In real life, I'm a girl with an unacceptable fetish who doesn't expect to ever live it out in real life. At this point, I can't ask anyone to play-act with me because my own embarrassment prevents me from enjoying it. One of my dreams is to own a CandyGirl doll someday. It's because I want to play out my fantasies without involving anyone, without forcing it all upon a real person.

The fembot arc feels like a personal rebuke to me: I'm supporting an industry that's hurting women and so forth. I haven't thought too hard about it. I never chose my fetishes. I don't want to give up on as close to fulfilling my fantasy as I'll ever get.


Looked up CandyGirl dolls. Wow, those are well-made. 0_0

You shouldn't have to feel ashamed -- you certainly aren't hurting anyone.
Personally I see nothing wrong with things like porn and sex dolls; what's bad is when you start dehumanizing people because of them. It certainly doesn't sound like you're doing that. =)

Also, technically the Fembots were a bit more than "dolls". Either way, the Fembots are more an analogy. Obviously the sex "dolls" in Sinfest are meant for those purposes, but they also seem to have A.I. close to emotion, which would blur the line more. As for an actual sex doll, no A.I., just well crafted...Other than using one has the potential to cause a lack of compassion in the person using it, that's not the case most of the time. And you don't sound the case.

Dehumanization and objectification are issues we think about when things like those sex dolls exist in real life, but I have a hard time deciding on their relevance to the issue severity at that. Personally, I believe it's fine. I think real issues are not with us being sexual creatures, but with the way the porn industry has mainstreamed certain ideas. (and instituted a social standard by which people are judged for liking/not liking something) Someone practicing what they enjoy on an inanimate objects doesn't really seem like it would be that wrong.

Granted we have the future concept of a world where no one wants to be with actual people and all that "OOooooh spooky future" stuff! But...yeah doubtful. Also it'd take really high A.I. like in Sinfest that could satisfy the need for human interaction. Possibly higher honestly, as it only took one word to make Slick lose his content feeling from the Fembot.
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Arthain



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
Phox wrote:
Actually what they did was the definition of domestic terrorism

Noun - 1. domestic terrorism - terrorism practiced in your own country against your own people; "the 1995 bombing of a federal building in Oklahoma City was an instance of domestic terrorism"
act of terrorism, terrorism, terrorist act - the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear

And seeing as this is the aftermath of their terror attack, it is related as we see what looks like an empty factory after an evacuation where workers left what they had on the ground and went to what ever their ready areas were as people look for what caused things to go so horribly wrong and the effected fembots just piled up awaiting re purposing and inspection.


so, yeah, like i said:

Quote:
man, some people just go full on stupid trying to figure out ways to twist this comic to demonize the sisterhood


And some people will go to extreme lengths to glorify and elevate the sisterhood to sainthood.

The fact of the matter is that two wrongs don't make a right, except in math. What Devil Corp is doing is wrong, but what the Sisterhood is doing is just as bad. Just because they label it as 'Justice' doesn't make it any better. They almost caused the death of many people when those fembots went berserk. How is attempted murder anything but evil?

Anyways, what I really wanted to mention before I saw that post is this:

Why are the smokestacks still spewing smoke when the factory is shut down? O_o
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Adyon



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arthain wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
Phox wrote:
Actually what they did was the definition of domestic terrorism

Noun - 1. domestic terrorism - terrorism practiced in your own country against your own people; "the 1995 bombing of a federal building in Oklahoma City was an instance of domestic terrorism"
act of terrorism, terrorism, terrorist act - the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear

And seeing as this is the aftermath of their terror attack, it is related as we see what looks like an empty factory after an evacuation where workers left what they had on the ground and went to what ever their ready areas were as people look for what caused things to go so horribly wrong and the effected fembots just piled up awaiting re purposing and inspection.


so, yeah, like i said:

Quote:
man, some people just go full on stupid trying to figure out ways to twist this comic to demonize the sisterhood


And some people will go to extreme lengths to glorify and elevate the sisterhood to sainthood.

The fact of the matter is that two wrongs don't make a right, except in math. What Devil Corp is doing is wrong, but what the Sisterhood is doing is just as bad. Just because they label it as 'Justice' doesn't make it any better. They almost caused the death of many people when those fembots went berserk. How is attempted murder anything but evil?

Anyways, what I really wanted to mention before I saw that post is this:

Why are the smokestacks still spewing smoke when the factory is shut down? O_o

Except for the Sisterhood, the line blurs a bit more. Sure, causing them to rebel and attack the workers could be considered bad if it was black and white. But, seeing as the concept is that the Fembots/Dudebros in these factories seem to be going through more "brainwashing" than "programming", when Curly introduced other real world images into the message, they got angry and rebelled. The problem of course is that sometimes the people have seemed more like robots and other times like brainwashed people. It's hard to decide what is or isn't the case. Tat's universe is always subjective to his whims/imagery he wants to do. Either way, if you change the programming of something designed to control you and it goes on a rampage to the ones creating it, is it actually the same magnitude of he who first created it? I mean, turning someone's weapon to use against them is often considered justified by almost all standards.

Sure, inciting violence can sometimes be considered evil, but we have to decide when things are necessary evils. When fighting back against an all-encompassing entity like Devil-corp, it would take a lot to actually do anything to them.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
man, some people just go full on stupid trying to figure out ways to twist this comic to demonize the sisterhood

they don't even have to be in the comic. it's spectacular. it is so deeply under so many people's skin now. ultimate trolling.


I think some of them somehow can't quite wrap their minds around the fact that the Sisterhood does not exist. I'm not sure why that would be, though.
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Crankysaint



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes. Keep this in mind; it may offer a way to make him your friend. If not, you can kill him without hate — and quickly.”

― Robert A. Heinlein
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lol



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arthain wrote:

And some people will go to extreme lengths to glorify and elevate the sisterhood to sainthood.

No one has actually done that though.
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some people will go to extreme lengths to invent people who will go to extreme lengths to glorify and elevate the sisterhood to sainthood in service of going to extreme lengths to demonize the sisterhood
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Arthain



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol wrote:
No one has actually done that though.


Unfortunately a lot of people have. It's much more subtle than demonizing the Devil Corp but it's there.

Whenever anyone argues against the actions taken by the Sisterhood there are dozens of people that get up in arms for various reasons. No one may explicitly state that the Sisterhood can do no wrong but it's there in the intention behind peoples arguments.

Just look at the responses to my post. People are going to great lengths to attack me and what I've said. One even said that a little evil is necessary to defeat a larger evil.

I'm sorry but there are no blurry lines. Everyone has their own point of view of whats right and wrong. The lines are clearly defined for each individual. It's only when you bring all the views together and try to create a single unified view that the lines become blurry, but for each individual they're very clear cut. From my clearly defined lines, both the Devil Corp and the Sisterhood are in the wrong. Trying to justify your actions as a 'necessary evil' doesn't make you better than what you're fighting, that just means you're willing to sink down to their level and fight just as dirty. It's actually worse because you 'know' what you're doing is wrong and yet you're still doing it.

There's actually a very good possible that the 'evil' you're fighting thinks that they're the good guys doing whatever it is they can to make life a better place. If everyone was brainwashed and followed the same set of views an ideals we'd have world peace, we'd have the elimination of discrimination and prejudice. Hate crimes, extremism and radicals would disappear. It would be a utopian society.

One without free will, but still a peaceful society where everyone was accepted equally. Whether they were accepted equally bad or good is for debate but from the eyes of D-Man this Sisterhood is fighting against his attempt to create that Utopian society he desires so much.

Anyways I sort of went on a tangent there but basically I think both are wrong from my point of view. If you have to sink to your opponents level to beat them, then it means you are no better than they, regardless of how you try to justify it.
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ShadowCell



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in other words, you can't actually point to any examples of what you're saying, so you're just telling us about the weird little pseudo-world inside your head where you're a special snowflake who sees the Matrix and realizes that everyone lies and it's all just bullshit.

so you're just talking out your ass, then.

maybe your point of view is deficient.
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Adyon



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arthain wrote:
There's actually a very good possible that the 'evil' you're fighting thinks that they're the good guys doing whatever it is they can to make life a better place. If everyone was brainwashed and followed the same set of views an ideals we'd have world peace, we'd have the elimination of discrimination and prejudice. Hate crimes, extremism and radicals would disappear. It would be a utopian society.

One without free will, but still a peaceful society where everyone was accepted equally. Whether they were accepted equally bad or good is for debate but from the eyes of D-Man this Sisterhood is fighting against his attempt to create that Utopian society he desires so much.

Anyways I sort of went on a tangent there but basically I think both are wrong from my point of view. If you have to sink to your opponents level to beat them, then it means you are no better than they, regardless of how you try to justify it.

First off, see the quote by Crankysaint of Robert A. Heinlein.

Big D at current has never wanted to become anyone's friend. That's been the whole point. Plus the concept that someone does something because they think they're good. Well...Big D has never really thought that. He's thought he's RIGHT, that money and power make you happy. But he's never thought he was being good. He was happily hurting others for his own good. It's power and control. What he wants.

Quote:
I'm sorry but there are no blurry lines. Everyone has their own point of view of whats right and wrong. The lines are clearly defined for each individual. It's only when you bring all the views together and try to create a single unified view that the lines become blurry, but for each individual they're very clear cut. From my clearly defined lines, both the Devil Corp and the Sisterhood are in the wrong. Trying to justify your actions as a 'necessary evil' doesn't make you better than what you're fighting, that just means you're willing to sink down to their level and fight just as dirty. It's actually worse because you 'know' what you're doing is wrong and yet you're still doing it.

But you also think that it's equal evils and that what the Sisterhood does is somehow wrong? Do you think this at most movies too? Because a common thought we have is that to do nothing is evil. That if you watch injustice and let it happen, you are the same in wrong. Often it's the people that stand up for what they believe we claim are justice. That's why the line isn't blurry even. That's why we don't see anything wrong with the Sisterhood. Even if their actions could be considered evil (as I said), they aren't in this context.

You say they're "sinking to their level". I disagree, but even if so, if the system was so that it really WAS the only way, is it still evil?
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adyon wrote:
I disagree, but even if so, if the system was so that it really WAS the only way, is it still evil?

It is possible that, for a given problem, there is no "good" solution; war is a classic example of that.

In the case of social injustice, change does not come about until the oppressed somehow manage to make the situation untenable or unbearable for the oppressor. Even in the case of nonviolent civil disobedience, the protesters must take action on a large enough scale and for a long enough time that changes are made simply to make the disobedience stop, because any other solution is too expensive, too inconvenient, and/or too impractical in comparison. Otherwise, the oppressors will just jail the protesters and continue with the status quo.

Since the success of fighting social injustice relies on making the status quo no longer acceptable to those who benefit from it, the action required is going to be seen as "not good"--perhaps even as "evil"--by someone.
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