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Mar 7 2013 -- Victim Blaming 2
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Sojobo



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 2433

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitflipper wrote:
(brightly)"So, umm, how 'bout this weather, eh? 'Welcome to Spring,' know what I mean?"

No. I don't "know what [you] mean". I am currently entering Autumn, not Spring. I don't know why you have to be so goddamn Northern Hemicentric all the time.
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha ha, sometimes we like things that are bad for us?

We've started doing this awhile back, romanticizing the idea of creatures fighting their urges. And to some point, yeah that's pretty nice of a concept. I think the series Blade was my earliest series I can remember, though many came before that I wasn't old enough. We start having the idea that a monster has urges, and only people with strong willpower/conviction can fight them.

Actually, that's one of the reasons I defended the Twilight series. Because the accusations towards it were often the same things that NEVER got thrown against all the other series doing the same thing. Besides the fact that it's not a well written book, Twilight had done nothing other books hadn't. It was just aimed at girls, and thus got scrutiny. Edward's a pedo. Well, the same people love the Underworld movies. And at least Meyer took the time to describe the emotional maturity never changes, so he's still a teenager in mind as he doesn't age. (Even if it might have been reactionary)

Even most of the controlling things he does just comes back to the "monsters" romance of overly controlling, scary creatures, where half the time he stops and realizes he's being wrong. Healthy or not, it surrounds the monster culture. Granted, Bella is the problem in the books of being so bad at just taking everything. Those accusations at the books are probably justified. =P

But so many things upset me, from Jacob taking his shirt off and everyone complaining. Because...you know. Guys never like to show off. On the other hand, women just love to wear skimpy clothing when fighting in real life. I'm fine with fan-service all around for men and women. (Even silly trashy romance fiction like Twilight and male counterparts) I mostly get annoyed when people hate on things ironically...and by that mostly guys hating on the fan-service for women of Twilight while loving watching James Bond girls strip.

I think I got off topic. My bad.
Sojobo wrote:
bitflipper wrote:
(brightly)"So, umm, how 'bout this weather, eh? 'Welcome to Spring,' know what I mean?"

No. I don't "know what [you] mean". I am currently entering Autumn, not Spring. I don't know why you have to be so goddamn Northern Hemicentric all the time.

It's randomly snowing in the South of the United States. The seasons mean nothing! NOTHING I saaaay!
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1017

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geareye, meet link: http://www.sinfest.net/phpbb2/search.php?search_author=Ibian

That redirects to all of the posts of a man with the username Ibian. It's the best example that I could find of what happens when idiotic, hateful people feel free to do what they want with their keyboards. The messages are incomplete, but I think that what you can see is quite enough to understand why, exactly, it's a freedom that not everyone deserves.

Just because we are in a forum it doesn't make our words meaningless. People are reading and will react accordingly.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't know the thing about them pissing in churches. Omg.

I think the revival of them as romantic characters started with Anne Rice, but I am not well versed enough in vampire literature to know better.

I do want to say that I read Dracula in October (Tried to as a kid, but didn't care for it.) and I love how much of a dork Bramwell Stoker is. It seems like he pretty much just took any cool new thing humans could do and just stuck it in there.

A friend told me that there was a whole genre of books about women learning to type - because that meant they could leave their husbands and make their own money by going door to door to type things. I'd love to see what some of those books were like.
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bitflipper



Joined: 09 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of vampires, Ibian once again rises from the grave; Leohan, that may have been justified, but I think it's going to be a while before I can forgive you for that.
Razz

I think Stoker may actually have been the first to romanticize vampires; Dracula is a love story, after all. But the anti-hero and the monster fighting his own nature and urges as central characters in stories seem fairly recent. Unless we count Shelley's Frankenstein? Was she the first to portray a monster in a sympathetic light? (It can be argued that Stoker, too, was sympathetic to his monster, but Dracula hardly could be said to have been battling his urges; that's more the idea I'm trying to pin down for a first-timer.)
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beauty and the Beast is sympathetic to a monster, isn't it? I recall reading folktales over the years as well that probably fit.
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Adyon



Joined: 27 May 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, it really was. When it comes down to it, the struggle with our own desires and id is where these concepts come from. So when you turn the ones id way the hell up to monster level, it shows a great deal of character to fight it. Granted a lot of these originated as ones' evil shown on the outside. Even the original Brothers Grimm version of Beauty and the Beast was more that the guy himself acted like a beast, and upon being rude to the wrong person, was cast to become a beast. Things like that can be more cautionary, where as the new age already has plenty of warnings around, so in Disney, while he struggles with himself, Beast is both at war with himself and the new found transformation's nature as well.

Heroism makes things interesting though. Nothing like having something to be beyond human to make make you really feel their struggle and know how great a character they are. You have reason to remember them. They go beyond human expectations. I'm a bit of a romantic in that way (well the other way too), that I like sympathetic characters, whether it be villains or heroes. Too often in some literature, only one side is sympathetic. Either a flat hero facing off against a complex villain. Or a sympathetic hero who battles everything against a pure evil with no reasoning. When you mix the two, you get something I love to read.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, can you truly call the Frankenstein monster of evil nature? I'd say the exact opposite. By nature he's naive and seeks companionship. Not too different than your regular human but with an easier time learning stuff. The problem arises when everybody hates him, so he effectively becomes a monster because people tell him that's what he is.

And yeah, figured that if anything Ibian can function as an example of how not to behave.
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitflipper wrote:
Liking vampires always kind of struck me like birds and mice thinking that cats are totally cool.


You sir, you READ Pratchett in a regular basis. Don't even try to deny it! .
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arkhron wrote:
bitflipper wrote:
Liking vampires always kind of struck me like birds and mice thinking that cats are totally cool.


You sir, you READ Pratchett in a regular basis. Don't even try to deny it! .


Well, the Elucidated Rodent Bretheren certainly thought Maurice was cool!

/Augh, I haven't even finished Making Money, let alone Unseen Academicals...
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arkhron wrote:
bitflipper wrote:
Liking vampires always kind of struck me like birds and mice thinking that cats are totally cool.


You sir, you READ Pratchett in a regular basis. Don't even try to deny it! .

I'll merely affirm that I'm always willing to steal from the best. Razz
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahahahah, nice! I read Mr Hatman too. My favorite so far is Feet of Clay, yours?
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved Feet of Clay! "I Do Not Find That To Be A Convincing Argument." Utterly priceless!

I don't know that I can narrow the Discworld series down to a single favorite. But, I think the three that most made me think and most influenced my view of humanity have to be the three Science of Discworld books, co-written with Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen. In them, the stories about the Discworld characters become secondary to the speculations of the three gentlemen authors regarding teaching, learning, and how we as people view the world around us.
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Arkhron



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crap, I haven't read these... I have read in spanish until "The Truth" and "thud!" in its native english, but I dont have the lenguage mastery to fully apreciate all the jokes and sparks u.u

After that book the crisis said me "hello" and I can't afford more books for now (I read e-books but I prefer to buy a few authors). Being optimistic, I know when my economy heals, I will have 10-12 friends waiting me in the bookstore ^^
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we're on the topic of books and Frankenstein has been mentioned, I need a book recommend for October. Last year was Dracula. I was thinking this year shoud e Frankenstein, but I don't know.

What classic horror book should I pick up?
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