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Feminism because why not make a thread for it?
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snorri wrote:
Felgraf wrote:

That said, my gut feeling is 'Probably not'.


I'm going with 'Probably a lot fewer'. We are dealing with the internet after all.


This is true. Justin Beiber gets death threats for.. being Justin Beiber, I suppose.
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bitflipper



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
I don't have advice for how a man should handle such a situation.

Why not the same advice most of us would have given Ms. Richards--advice even she, herself, proclaims (even if she doesn't adhere to it) : It only takes three words to civilly say to someone, "That's not cool."
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Lasairfiona



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Dude, she's a girl who situationally became an outlet target for people who want to validate the whole "women are out to get me" mentality. She is doubtlessly drowned in death threats. you get death threats for everything, but what she did will make her the target of a number of groups that give you way more death threats on average.

And death threats are NOT FUCKING COOL but that doesn't seem to get through so well. But it isn't like you can excuse her behavior - she doesn't deserve death threats but examples of death threats for zero cause are plenty prolific that is is easier to use those as examples of shitty female/male problems in society than this BS situation that I just hope this one dies and/or a better example outshines it.

Oh look, a damn incomprehensible sentence. Pretty much it is hard to convince people that death threats are bad mmmkay but it is even harder when the object of the death threats did something that was actually bad even if the bad wasn't death threat deserving.

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Snorri



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Dude, she's a girl who situationally became an outlet target for people who want to validate the whole "women are out to get me" mentality. She is doubtlessly drowned in death threats. you get death threats for everything, but what she did will make her the target of a number of groups that give you way more death threats on average.


Oh yeah I know. 13 year old girls get bombarded with death threats. That savage attack on women or even the idea of feminism all the time is fucked up.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
And death threats are NOT FUCKING COOL but that doesn't seem to get through so well. But it isn't like you can excuse her behavior - she doesn't deserve death threats but examples of death threats for zero cause are plenty prolific that is is easier to use those as examples of shitty female/male problems in society than this BS situation that I just hope this one dies and/or a better example outshines it.


women in particular seem to get a fuckzillion more for being part of any sort of feminist cause. there are, like, bizarrely huge amounts of people that proc off of that and just slur and threaten the shit out of women

i mean i get the occasional death threat for being part of some things related to advancing equality, or even just for making a blog article about how a game genre categorically sucks. Were I to post under a gender neutral identity, I could enhance those 5-10 death threats a year to about, say, 50 minimum. Just for not definitely being a guy.

whatta world
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had people tell me I should kill myself, but no one has ever actually threatened to kill or rape me. But I haven't incurred the wrath of Anonymous, either. Or internet nerds.

I wonder if anyone has studied the way men and women are intimidated differently. I can't find anything on google scholar right off the bat, but I'm curious how both men and women use language to intimidate other men and women...
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel I should point out that ultimately the sorts of efforts that Adria makes, even disregarding her famous blunder, just make women in the industry feel more singled-out and isolated. She's not only targeting the wrong things in her attempts to fix a problem, she's actually working against her own cause. Constantly.

It's a very real problem, though: http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/programming-and-development/it-gender-gap-where-are-the-female-programmers/2386
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Salpta



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
I feel I should point out that ultimately the sorts of efforts that Adria makes, even disregarding her famous blunder, just make women in the industry feel more singled-out and isolated.


Complete agreement. The men at conferences are going to be censoring themselves in order to not offend nearby women, which will be perceived as the men treating the women differently. Which they are, but only to not offend not because they've changed their attitudes. It's going to be a self-affirming cycle.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bitflipper wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
I don't have advice for how a man should handle such a situation.

Why not the same advice most of us would have given Ms. Richards--advice even she, herself, proclaims (even if she doesn't adhere to it) : It only takes three words to civilly say to someone, "That's not cool."


I should clarify - I don't have advice for men who are afraid of approaching such a group of women, for fear of eing a white knight mansplainer, or being seen as one.

And I think that is the best advice if you can do it. Me and my social anxiety would go to con staff, and then hide as much as possible.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salpta wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
I feel I should point out that ultimately the sorts of efforts that Adria makes, even disregarding her famous blunder, just make women in the industry feel more singled-out and isolated.


Complete agreement. The men at conferences are going to be censoring themselves in order to not offend nearby women, which will be perceived as the men treating the women differently. Which they are, but only to not offend not because they've changed their attitudes. It's going to be a self-affirming cycle.


When I joined the Navy, I had an older man literal say,"I'm going to take this youmg man over to the corner to talk, because women are too likely to sue for sexual harassment. You'll find everyone behaves that way."

Irritating. Stupid. But not as stupid as having to listen to a bunch of guys say sexist things and include me in the situation because they were respectfully including me due to my gender identity.

I'll take not hearing any of the conversation over sexist talk eing widely accepted and encouraged any day.
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Salpta



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
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Location: Sailing the steel breeze.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

His Holiness the Dalai Lama put out a good lesson today that I think Adria could learn from:

Quote:
Whether we consider the individual, family, local, national or international level, peace must arise from inner peace. For example, making prayers for peace while continuing to harbor anger is futile. Training the mind and overcoming your anger is much more effective than mere prayer. Anger, hatred and jealousy never solve problems, only affection, concern and respect can do that.


Like Granny does.
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Dogen



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Salpta wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
I feel I should point out that ultimately the sorts of efforts that Adria makes, even disregarding her famous blunder, just make women in the industry feel more singled-out and isolated.


Complete agreement. The men at conferences are going to be censoring themselves in order to not offend nearby women, which will be perceived as the men treating the women differently. Which they are, but only to not offend not because they've changed their attitudes. It's going to be a self-affirming cycle.


When I joined the Navy, I had an older man literal say,"I'm going to take this youmg man over to the corner to talk, because women are too likely to sue for sexual harassment. You'll find everyone behaves that way."

Irritating. Stupid. But not as stupid as having to listen to a bunch of guys say sexist things and include me in the situation because they were respectfully including me due to my gender identity.

I'll take not hearing any of the conversation over sexist talk eing widely accepted and encouraged any day.

Yeah, I mean at some point it stopped being funny to tell racist jokes (for most people), and I doubt it was because blacks let it be known that they were cool with it as long as it was a joke. It was because people were made to feel self-conscious about what they said, and that translated into them not saying it, which meant they weren't reinforcing other people to believe it was okay. It's not the way I'd like for it to happen, but I don't think it necessarily backfires. The guy having sexist thoughts might still harbor them, but there's less cumulative sexist language floating around, and for some fraction of people it will click that that's because it's not okay.

For the record, I'm not perfect (shocking!) and I occasionally say things I shouldn't. My friends correct me, and I feel self-conscious, but I learn from it and do better... so some fraction of people may respond directly, too.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:

I'll take not hearing any of the conversation over sexist talk eing widely accepted and encouraged any day.

I have to agree with you on this. I'm just not much of a fan of Adria specifically.
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again! Need help with this! http://vimeo.com/62085792#

On a first instance seems homophobic. After 40 seconds seems sarcastic. Then seems a profound reflexion about society.

Then is a chain of wtf moments, and the ending made me laugh a lot.

So, I ask to the 'festers, What do you think about it?
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Heretical Rants



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

uh

no comment
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