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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
Posts: 1017

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look. The cool trait Jesus has is exactly that he is, in nature, complex. He may be a part of God's trinity, but he, in turn, has a trinity of his own. Look no further than the Magi's gift for a basic understanding of what are the distinct traits of Jesus:

"Gold, as to a king; myrrh, as to one who was mortal; and incense, as to a God"

Fundamentally, Jesus is a king, a God and a man. All through the New Testament, we see the struggle between those three aspects. Can you be a God and a mortal at the same time? More than once was Jesus tempted to follow one sole path. It also reflects on the three selves that each of us have: Jesus is a form of God, is perceived by his followers as the King of Jews and sees himself as a man. All of those three form a part of what Jesus ultimately signifies. THAT's complexity in a literally, philosophical AND religious standpoint.

And you know what? I'm not even getting started at this point.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Double post. I blame slow connection for confusing me.

EDIT: I'll take advantage of it by restating a postulate that I've said before and is being expanded now: Sinfest used to be comedy oriented. Now it's message oriented. This orientation still allows room for comedy, and Tat delivers incredibly, but his priorities have clearly changed. It changed so long ago, though, that it would be accurate to say that this standpoint represents the current spirit of Sinfest.

Which isn't to mean that the older comics were devoid of message. You know what's the first Sinfest strip that deals with the subject of feminism? The ninth one.


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Last edited by Leohan on Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:02 am; edited 2 times in total
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, bad metaphor then Razz

I am just pointing about the art's debate of medium-or-end, that is a bit irreconciliable for now. If somehow we find a clear and satisfactory solution maybe some universities would give us a doctor honoris causa mention or something xD
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Gibson22



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drowemos wrote:
*sigh*

I don't really have anything against Xanthe. She is a little dull... OK she is amazingly dull but that is fine when there are other character around to provide personality. The Terminator is fine as long as there is a Sarah Connor.

It just feels like many of the "strong characters" - female are becoming "strong females" - weak character.


I'm actually starting to like Xanthe a bit more and more. I didn't like her at first, because I associated her with being preachy. That is because you always see her "fighting the patriarchy". I guess if I see her more I'd like her. Anyway, another point, and I wanted to pull this up and ask everyone: who is the best and most convincing strong woman in fiction that you've seen?

I am curious because I happened upon this after reading the post I am responding to (watch until 7:46 to get the entirety of my point): http://youtu.be/Q2CQk_nsCAs?t=6m27s

Likewise, who is the best gentle man character you have seen? In my opinion, it would probably be Maes Hughs. I love the way his character is portrayed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaCW7UONCSs
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Best strong woman is Sarah Connor. I don't think there's even competition there. Most gentlemanly's man... Well, I can think of a few, but they are generally douches underneath smooth exteriors.
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Arkhron



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Ripley, from Alien
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, true! Ripley's worth considering as well.
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The Peanut Gallery



Joined: 07 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Virginia from the 10th Kingdom.

Wait! I want to change my answer! Toph from Avatar.


Last edited by The Peanut Gallery on Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gibson22



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hot dang. I forgot how hard core Sarah Conner was. Very good choice. As for Ripley in "Alien", I still have to watch that and I heard amazing things. I remember seeing a brief part of it with her in it and my head exploding from awesomeness.

At first I was thinking more along the lines of "everyday underdog", like Mrs. Brisby from "The Secret of Nihm", but those characters are definitely good strong women that I think everyone can like and doesn't fall into stereotypes. I did like Katniss from the "Hunger Games" series as well.

As for men, I thought of another one: Miles Hendon from the "Prince and the Pauper". You guys would love his character.

But I'll be quiet now. Keep 'em coming folks. I am curious. O_O

TOPH FROM AVATAR! THAT IS AN *AMAZING* CHOICE! Very Happy

*Ahem* I'm sorry. I totally geeked out there. But honestly, that is probably one of the best female characters I have ever seen.


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Miss Magenta



Joined: 09 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Which isn't to mean that the older comics were devoid of message. You know what's the first Sinfest strip that deals with the subject of feminism? The ninth one.


Well technically, keeping the college run of Sinfest in mind technically the FIRST SINFEST STRIP EVER dealt with feminism. Like, Sinfest literally began with feminism.
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Bisuke, I mean, uh, Biscuit Krueger, from Hunter x Hunter

fo'sho

fandomhood might be influencing me a bit much on this, though

besides just personality, she could probably beat up any of the other characters listed thus far, and I guess that's one sort of "strong," but that's largely due to the nature of combat in the comic she's in


also ponies
ponies
___

"gentlemanly" is a harder term for me.
I could list male characters I like, and some of them might be considered "gentlemanly" in some sense, but the term itself is kind of meaningless to me. The bit of my brain dedicated to that label is tied more to an image than to a set of virtues or personality traits or whatever.
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Amitabha



Joined: 21 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drowemos wrote:
Devil girls aside as they are starting to have the same motivations and personality. They are all Xanthe.


Well... um... the whole devil girls aside significantly reduces the pool. I mean, how many regularly appearing female characters do we have other than Nique, Minique, Granny, the Sisterhood, and now Sweaterbot?

And I wouldn't say among those characters there's too much flatness. Certainly, they are all aligned firmly against the patriarchy, but all in very different ways.

Monique is genuinely hurt by the hecklers at her show but is refusing to show them that side- and I still harbor my hopes and suspicions that she genuinely does want Slick's friendship and is frustrated by his dudebroish behavior. So even if you don't agree with her, you can still relate to her.

Minique has the position of innocence- she has not been too greatly influenced by the Patriarchy yet, and that allows her to really see it for what it is and fight it with a very natural indignation.

Granny fights the Patriarchy as well- but she does it nicely (and I strongly disagree with those who say that being nice never works), with compassion towards the people who are hurt by the patriarchy, and a kindness to the ignorant dudebros that the other characters don't show. That sets her apart very clearly I think.

Sweaterbot is also unique in her opposition, because she sort of captures a spirit of unbridled rage at the atrocities of the Patriarchy- in this she is similar to Minique, but she is different in that she started out under the Patriarchy's influence, and she has witnessed the full extreme of Patriarchal oppression- I would argue that she has, in this way, already become the strongest of the feminist characters.

As for the Sisterhood, I sort of have to agree that they are somewhat flat and cold. I think the Sisterhood exist less as characters in themselves so much as foils for the other characters. They point out the various flaws and instances of Patriarchy within all of the other characters in the comic, and they show a movement that we are meant to see as the "good" in opposition to the Patriarchy's "evil".

We are beginning to see Xanthe getting fleshed out as a character, to which I say MORE TAT, MORE!

But if you bring the devil girls back in, we get a whole new set of viewpoints, only some of which are strictly feminist.

I mean, come on. PEBBLES. PEBBLES IS SO WONDERFUL AND AWESOME. And she's not an aggressive feminist at all. She's largely uninfluenced by any social/political ideology, which makes her loveable for all of us, even the antifeminist people.

But I don't think the non-devil female characters are too flat and uniform at all (once again, with the exception of the sisterhood).
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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amitabha wrote:
Granny fights the Patriarchy as well- but she does it nicely (and I strongly disagree with those who say that being nice never works)


I concurr with you. There are smart people who really would stand up if they were unfolded to reality with compassion and care. Kindness are underestimated. It can work prodigies on concerned people who ask.

In the other hand, to the raging dudebros that point and shout bullshit, a dialectical kick in the nuts is enough. My favorites nutkickdealers here are McDermott and Dennis Very Happy
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also Ariel (who AFAIK has never appeared without Ezekiel; talk about a female character who needs to find her own voice) and Lady Liberty.

Of course, Lady Liberty's very existence is a bit of a puzzler. She and Uncle Sam* aren't ordinary mortals or Devil People or Angels or robots, so they're...what, exactly? American Gods?

Then again, if we've never seen her without her hat, maybe she is a Devil Person and the hat just hides her horns.

Liberty as Devil? Commencing metaphor meltdown in five, four, three...

===

*out of so many unanswered questions, those two, we know have a house; we even know that it's probably in the same general neighborhood as Slick's and Monique's and the others's houses, because we've seen Slick and Monique on Sam and Liberty's lawn before.


http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3024

Monique looks quite odd running with her arms straight down in Panel 3, doesn't she?

Off-off-topic, I'm thus reminded that we also know that Jesus has a house in the same neighborhood.


http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=3215

IMHO it'd read a little better if Li'l E had said "stupid" instead of "dummy." The extra alliteration would make for a smoother read. Oh well.
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Istancow



Joined: 30 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh! And Lil'E's mum! Don't forget her.

She um... turns members and associates of angry mobs into stone? Although, I'm not sure that was done with the intention of promoting social justice.
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