welcome to the fest
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

2013-03-30 Are you blind?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3315

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People shouldn't but they constantly do.

High minded rhetoric is pretty irrelevant when you take the world "as is".
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kjralon



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 51
Location: New Jersey, USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
uhhh
for one thing, I still don't see how female-drawn (or written) porn is not female-friendly


I won't say anything more in this thread, bye~


When it perpetrates the braazers model of exploitation? Scenarios like pretending to be immigration to blackmail illegal immigrants into sex acts?

Whether or not the treatment of the actresses in porn is appropriate and above board, the fantasies and scenarios they depict tend toward the exploitation and degradation of women. This in turn contributes to a culture that treats women as objects of pleasure rather than people and individuals, particularly among young males who have likely received a larger portion of their sexual experiences from porn than they have from actual experiences.


This. Exactly this. Thank you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*peeks in*

uuuhhh
what
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:


When it perpetrates the braazers model of exploitation? Scenarios like pretending to be immigration to blackmail illegal immigrants into sex acts?


No, obviously not, and I don't see how that relates to what I posted.


bye
_________________
butts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kjralon



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 51
Location: New Jersey, USA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geareye wrote:


People shouldn't get their moral/social compass from fiction. It's not about women in porn, it's possibly about everything. Cop who disobeys the law to brings 'actual' justice. Kid who wanders off house to discover 'magical' land. Person who falls in love and follows around like a lunatic another person they met five minutes ago. If someone were to take ANY of these and try to implement them into their actual life the results would probably be really problematic-(as shown by many every day examples, with how to treat women being an obvious one). But according to my preferences, the focus should be more on teaching people not to take examples/guidance about what to do in life from works of fiction, aimed for entertainment -especially for mass-produced-quickly-consumed entertainment- instead of banning these works of fiction. Because that would seem too 1984-ic to me. Other people's preferences might vary though, no problem with that...


It does not matter who does what when and whether they are male or female. If a female is perpetuating sexist and negative cultural ideas, those sexist and negative cultural ideas about women are STILL negative. It doesn't matter if it's a woman spreading the idea. The idea is still being spread and affecting women as a whole group. The fact that porn, which caters specifically to men, and shows a woman as a product or a "consumable" for temporary and disconnected pleasure unrelated to her personhood, is what perpetuates the ideas our culture has about sex and about women. Or a contributor anyway. I'm terrible at putting my thoughts together.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website MSN Messenger
Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3315

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
*peeks in*

uuuhhh
what
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:


When it perpetrates the braazers model of exploitation? Scenarios like pretending to be immigration to blackmail illegal immigrants into sex acts?


No, obviously not, and I don't see how that relates to what I posted.


bye


Because feminist porn is at best a microscopic portion of porn consumed. The fact that it's written by a woman doesn't make the content necessarily unproblematic.

I got into an argument with a woman (on the internet naturally) about how the attitude that dinner and a movie being equated to paying a prostitute for sex is basically a horrendous position to take and just got accused of believing women dont have sex drives too and I'm just an asexual eunuch for not buying into it. The fact that the person arguing with me had a vag doesn't make her position unproblematic in the grand scheme of gender roles and relationships.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Posts: 5344
Location: No.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, actually. Some really shitty things that have come up in pop culture recently come to mind.


BYE
_________________
butts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kjralon wrote:
Geareye wrote:


People shouldn't get their moral/social compass from fiction. It's not about women in porn, it's possibly about everything. Cop who disobeys the law to brings 'actual' justice. Kid who wanders off house to discover 'magical' land. Person who falls in love and follows around like a lunatic another person they met five minutes ago. If someone were to take ANY of these and try to implement them into their actual life the results would probably be really problematic-(as shown by many every day examples, with how to treat women being an obvious one). But according to my preferences, the focus should be more on teaching people not to take examples/guidance about what to do in life from works of fiction, aimed for entertainment -especially for mass-produced-quickly-consumed entertainment- instead of banning these works of fiction. Because that would seem too 1984-ic to me. Other people's preferences might vary though, no problem with that...


It does not matter who does what when and whether they are male or female. If a female is perpetuating sexist and negative cultural ideas, those sexist and negative cultural ideas about women are STILL negative. It doesn't matter if it's a woman spreading the idea. The idea is still being spread and affecting women as a whole group. The fact that porn, which caters specifically to men, and shows a woman as a product or a "consumable" for temporary and disconnected pleasure unrelated to her personhood, is what perpetuates the ideas our culture has about sex and about women. Or a contributor anyway. I'm terrible at putting my thoughts together.


How is that relevant to what I said? How? Or perhaps you quoted the wrong post, I am assuming you wanted to quote Heretical Rants and not me...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
People shouldn't but they constantly do.

High minded rhetoric is pretty irrelevant when you take the world "as is".


And here I thought you were among the people who thought that society could change and not remain male-privileged....but hey, you are always free to take the world 'as is'....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6053
Location: California

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's cute and all Geareye but the point is actually in the complete opposite direction from the one you went in

anyways you probably shouldn't be the one talking about "thinking that society could change and not remain male-privileged" when you refuse to talk about any of that stuff and instead habitually retreat into empty generalities and abstractions, as you did again, in this thread.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
that's cute and all Geareye but the point is actually in the complete opposite direction from the one you went in

anyways you probably shouldn't be the one talking about "thinking that society could change and not remain male-privileged" when you refuse to talk about any of that stuff and instead habitually retreat into empty generalities and abstractions, as you did again, in this thread.


The comic's point may be what Tat wants it to be, that doesn't mean I can't offer an argument against it (or as I see this particular case ,in a 90 degree direction to it). This thread is a thread about discussing today's comic, not about worshipping the point made by today's comic without question.

On the other part I am not going to even comment on your inability to see what my posts actually say, but even if that were the case, that wouldn't mean that I am_not_allowed_to/can't mock a phrase that appeared worth mocking to me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6053
Location: California

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you weren't making a point at all. the only thing you did is make this useless claim that "people shouldn't get their moral compass from fiction" and then go off to talking about things that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. you aren't discussing anything.

and you still aren't making a point.

by the way, if you're going to resort to mockery, at least try to be funny about it. otherwise the only thing you wind up mocking is yourself. also you might want to actually make sure that you know what it is you're mocking. i find that helps a great deal. you should try it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
you weren't making a point at all. the only thing you did is make this useless claim that "people shouldn't get their moral compass from fiction" and then go off to talking about things that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. you aren't discussing anything.

and you still aren't making a point.

by the way, if you're going to resort to mockery, at least try to be funny about it. otherwise the only thing you wind up mocking is yourself. also you might want to actually make sure that you know what it is you're mocking. i find that helps a great deal. you should try it.


You called the claim that 'people shouldn't get their moral compass from fiction' in a thread about a comic that refered to how women are mistreated as a result of problematic relationship/interaction models promoted through pornography useless. I will take this as my hint to cease this friendly chat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3315

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geareye wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:
People shouldn't but they constantly do.

High minded rhetoric is pretty irrelevant when you take the world "as is".


And here I thought you were among the people who thought that society could change and not remain male-privileged....but hey, you are always free to take the world 'as is'....


Ok, let me rephrase.


ahem.


No shit sherlock, but they do. People shouldn't murder and they should treat women with respect and a lot of the scenarios and depictions in modern porn are actively harmful and work against that ideal. To deal with that problem you have to face up to the fact that people often do things they "shouldn't" do, and to act like saying "well people shouldn't take their ideas about life and society from media"Edit: solves or helps anything (lost a sentence there) is asinine, given the studies out there that show that it's exactly what we do. And unless you have some grand insight as to how to change the fact that human desire to fit in and find acceptance urges us to behave as we see others around us behaving, the solution to the problem will have to rest in change within the media under discussion.
_________________


Last edited by Monkey Mcdermott on Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6053
Location: California

PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geareye wrote:
You called the claim that 'people shouldn't get their moral compass from fiction' in a thread about a comic that refered to how women are mistreated as a result of problematic relationship/interaction models promoted through pornography useless. I will take this as my hint to cease this friendly chat.


that's because it is useless--because they do, whether or not they should, and they always will, whether or not they should--but evidently you also realize that and just aren't big enough to admit it, so run along now and try not to hurt yourself next time.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I could argue that if all of this is fantasy and all of the actors are getting paid for their performances... what problem? Maybe they should have disclaimers saying that this is a work of fiction, no one was harmed, much like how video-games have these same disclaimers for their violence.

Either way though, I prefer hentai manga, mostly cause you have loving boyfriends/girlfriends or at least common interest sex. Of course there are the dark side of these too (Looking at you NTR, die in a fire), but I don't think that because these exist we should throw everything of it out.

Maybe their should be stricter practices, throw out the bad apples before they kill the bunch, but really, Squig, where the hell did you find this website, it seems a bit extreme for mainstream...
_________________
The Angry Asshat.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Sinfest Forum Index -> Sinfest All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group