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2013-04-10: Djustice Unchained
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

this is still not getting us to the "and that's why we can excuse Riefenstahl for making a film that supported a racist regime" part
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mouse



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you know, darq - even if you completely ignore the whole antisemitism thing, there were plenty of reasons to worry about hitler before 1935.

starting with the reichstag fire, shortly after hitler became chancellor. he used this to purge the government of communists (many of whom ended up in concentration camps) and to pass the reichstag fire decree, stripping _all_ german citizens of many of their civil rights, including habeus corpus, freedom of the press and of assembly, and privacy of postal and telephone communications. this made it illegal to say or print anything against the nazi party. the panic this created let them essentially take control of parliament in an election held only a few days later. so only a little over a month after being appointed chancellor, hitler was well on his way to having a one-party police state. that sorta points to evil.

and the concentration camps held many more people than jews - they also imprisoned political enemies, "degenerates" like homosexuals and prostitutes, and other races that the nazis considered subhuman, like gypsies and slavs. but first and foremost, political enemies. and they made that very clear to everyone.

good old wiki:
Quote:
The first camp in Germany, Dachau, was founded in March 1933.[7] The press announcement said that "the first concentration camp is to be opened in Dachau with an accommodation for 5,000 persons. All Communists and – where necessary – Reichsbanner and Social Democratic functionaries who endanger state security are to be concentrated there, as in the long run it is not possible to keep individual functionaries in the state prisons without overburdening these prisons."[7] Dachau was the first regular concentration camp established by the German coalition government of National Socialist Workers' Party (Nazi Party) and the Nationalist People's Party (dissolved on 6 July 1933). Heinrich Himmler, then Chief of Police of Munich, officially described the camp as "the first concentration camp for political prisoners."[7]

Dachau served as a prototype and model for the other Nazi concentration camps. Almost every community in Germany had members taken there. The newspapers continuously reported of "the removal of the enemies of the Reich to concentration camps" making the general population more aware of their presence.


march 1933 - right after the nazis got control of the reichstag. and notice - they _wanted_ people to know about the camps. they wanted everyone to be afraid of ending up there, so that no one would stand up against them. again, i'm thinking most people would see this as pretty clear evil.

and then they started destroying each other. at least 85 people assassinated, and thousands arrested. that was in 1934, and before the filming of "triumph of the will". in fact, roehm's fall must have been very much on riefenstahl's mind during the filming...because he had featured in a very similar film she had made the previous year, Der Seig des Glaubens:
Quote:
Though Sieg apparently did well at the box office, it later became a serious embarrassment to the Nazis after SA Leader Ernst Röhm, who had a prominent role in the film, was executed during the Night of the Long Knives. All references to Röhm were ordered to be erased from German history, which included the destruction of all known copies of Der Sieg des Glaubens.


so, you know - leni knew adolf wasn't a teddy bear. she had read Mein Kampf, she was in pretty tight with the party leaders, and her career benefited tremendously from that. if she didn't know everything, she was in a position to know more than most. and it must have been quickly apparently to even the ordinary citizens that hitler and his party were capable of doing great evil almost from the start of his rule.

and even if she was a completely ignorant innocent - the whole intent of the movie, the intent of adolf hitler whose idea it was, was to promote the nazi rule of germany. and she gave him exactly what he wanted, showing the image of germany he wanted her to show.

so, you know - you kinda have to take that intent into consideration, as well. while nazi germany did not start by doing all the various evils it is now reviled for from day one, the seeds were all there.
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suds



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
And a 'fuck you' to anyone and everyone who isn't chastising Him and everyone else who's treating Thatcher's death like it's a celebration.


One of them affected people's families, jobs, health and everything else in their lives, making a good chunk of them miserable. The other one gave his opinion on movies.

Honestly, I hope you complain when people celebrate Hitler's death too. After all, it's only fair: some people told you once that you are a shitty person for enjoying someone dying of a painful disease that disfigured him and made him suffer for a decade because he dared to disagree with you on movies. ERGO NOBODY CAN CELEBRATE ANY DEATH EVER.
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in other news, you were in that thread asking if anyone could 'shoop' a photo of Thatcher to look like Palpatine, so not a hundred percent sure where you're getting all these legs you keep standing on.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
If I were a moderator I would seriously for serious post "You should all be ashamed of yourselves." and lock the thread forever.


You should write up a post like that anyway.
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Leohan



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dude... I used to like this topic.

How did we even get here?
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leohan wrote:
Dude... I used to like this topic.

How did we even get here?


I think someone called a kitten names.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hitler was a well-known ailurophobe.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So clearly tey are taking revenge by trotting him out to irritate and enrage the masses until the end of time.

Sneaky things.
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Mizike



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:

Prove to me right now that anti-semitism was contested in the same manner and degree in Germany 1934 that racism was contested in the US in 1914. Also, prove to me that Jews felt the same about antisemitism in 1934 Germany as blacks felt about racism in 1914 US. Because the reality was it wasn't the same. Because they weren't. The Jews were absurdly accepting of such practices, and I'm not making this shit up, but it's for reals the whole "God saved us in Egypt, he has countless times, he will save us again."

Look, I have literately read dozens of books on the holocaust and WWII. I've had to critically examine Triumph of the Will in multiple classes. The shit I'm talking about, the moral standards I'm attributing to people of the times, are supported in so, so many works. It's sickening. The degree to which people "didn't care about the Jews" in 1934 Europe is simply insanely alien to modern morality. Don't forget that a large part of why so many Jews died was that Germany's neighbors also did not want want the Jews in their country.
okay, two words:

"the Jews"

yes, that's right, the Jews contested the hell out of antisemitism in 1930s Germany! of course, Hitler was the one who had all the power, so we know how that story goes. nonetheless, the Jews did not just sit there and take it; that is the entire reason why Zionism ever became a thing, after all.

game, set, match, you gibbering fuckstain

Cite your claim. Because they didn't. They did take it. They thought it would pass. They engaged in nothing like the race riots that America saw. Blacks in the south went north en masse, Jews did not flee Germany to nearly the same degree.


Point of order: there's a difference between moving from one part of the country where you speak the common tongue to another part of that same country and moving from one nation to another where you don't speak the native language.

Also, you're an idiot.
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