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2013-04-14 Meanwhile, in the bomf district...
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 2786
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Rothide wrote:
The girls there do not look like they are languishing and suffering or anything really bad happening to them, they actually look like they are enjoying themselves, I guess that could just be a front, but even when we got into the place itself, except for del'nique looking sad, we don't really get that from the other devils.


Thing is, that's how they're -being presented-. They're labeled commodities behind glass, with a price-tag attached. I'm not sure how much clearer that could be, considering it's depicted literally.

These kinds of problems are insidious. Some women in the sex industry are physically abused, and it is easier to find outrage for that kind of thing (though still not universal,) and it's awful. Some are trafficked, and there is a special place in hell waiting for every single dick involved with that. You want to see how that sausage is made (see what I did there?) read "Half the Sky." What that book, and others like it, might also do is help you see the rest of what's right in front of you. All the ways, big and small, that add up to women being treated like commodities, femininity and female sexuality as a public good for consumption, to be branded, marketed, and used accordingly, and generally regarded as objects of biological function with different fetish costumes on, even if those costumes are their own skins.

You want to see what's "over there." I think Tat's asking you to see what's right in front of you. The latter can be the harder thing, but ultimately the more important for making a personal change.


There is also the fact that women who are being exploited have to look and act happy. They have to look like they enjoy it - so going by what the devil girls in this strip look like is no indication of whether they are happy or being exploited.

Fuschia looked happy, but we know now she wasn't happy. What other devil girls are like her?
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
you don't need to actually be a victim of exploitation and abuse to recognize exploitation and abuse when it happens.


Yes, and just because some people are happy doesn't mean no one is being exploited. Sex trafficking happens for real, and it is slavery. Slavery is not a happy thing.
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Leohan



Joined: 27 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So... Third devil girl right there. Savage, I mean.

...Where is the price tag hanging from? I have my guess, but I don't like it.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Rune wrote:
Rothide wrote:
The girls there do not look like they are languishing and suffering or anything really bad happening to them, they actually look like they are enjoying themselves, I guess that could just be a front, but even when we got into the place itself, except for del'nique looking sad, we don't really get that from the other devils.


Thing is, that's how they're -being presented-. They're labeled commodities behind glass, with a price-tag attached. I'm not sure how much clearer that could be, considering it's depicted literally.

These kinds of problems are insidious. Some women in the sex industry are physically abused, and it is easier to find outrage for that kind of thing (though still not universal,) and it's awful. Some are trafficked, and there is a special place in hell waiting for every single dick involved with that. You want to see how that sausage is made (see what I did there?) read "Half the Sky." What that book, and others like it, might also do is help you see the rest of what's right in front of you. All the ways, big and small, that add up to women being treated like commodities, femininity and female sexuality as a public good for consumption, to be branded, marketed, and used accordingly, and generally regarded as objects of biological function with different fetish costumes on, even if those costumes are their own skins.

You want to see what's "over there." I think Tat's asking you to see what's right in front of you. The latter can be the harder thing, but ultimately the more important for making a personal change.


There is also the fact that women who are being exploited have to look and act happy. They have to look like they enjoy it - so going by what the devil girls in this strip look like is no indication of whether they are happy or being exploited.

Fuschia looked happy, but we know now she wasn't happy. What other devil girls are like her?


Yup. Part of what's being "sold" is that they're happy and willing, regardless of whether that's true or not.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
CalmBlueSea wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
Fuschia might be doing okay now, but she might serve as a frightening example to the others. Because look at her - no access to money, could be crushed at any moment now.


If she took commissions, she'd probably make a killing. Even if it was just Seymour, seems like he can afford to blow loads on Jesus paintings. Dohoho


People think making money off art is easy if you are talented. It is not. Also, some people find they can't really make good art if they are doing it for money.

I think right now she's more concerned with healing.


Like that kid on kickstarter who raised like $20,000+ to make weird, semi-crappy drawings of people's pets. I'm pretty sure he made lots of talented people cry.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darqcyde wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
CalmBlueSea wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
Fuschia might be doing okay now, but she might serve as a frightening example to the others. Because look at her - no access to money, could be crushed at any moment now.


If she took commissions, she'd probably make a killing. Even if it was just Seymour, seems like he can afford to blow loads on Jesus paintings. Dohoho


People think making money off art is easy if you are talented. It is not. Also, some people find they can't really make good art if they are doing it for money.

I think right now she's more concerned with healing.


Like that kid on kickstarter who raised like $20,000+ to make weird, semi-crappy drawings of people's pets. I'm pretty sure he made lots of talented people cry.


As a matter of fact, yes. Yes he does.

Also, if you want to make an artist rant, mention Thomas Kinkade.
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Darqcyde wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
CalmBlueSea wrote:
stripeypants wrote:
Fuschia might be doing okay now, but she might serve as a frightening example to the others. Because look at her - no access to money, could be crushed at any moment now.


If she took commissions, she'd probably make a killing. Even if it was just Seymour, seems like he can afford to blow loads on Jesus paintings. Dohoho


People think making money off art is easy if you are talented. It is not. Also, some people find they can't really make good art if they are doing it for money.

I think right now she's more concerned with healing.


Like that kid on kickstarter who raised like $20,000+ to make weird, semi-crappy drawings of people's pets. I'm pretty sure he made lots of talented people cry.


As a matter of fact, yes. Yes he does.

Also, if you want to make an artist rant, mention Thomas Kinkade.


Or John McNaughton.

I have the dubious pleasure of living in a town that falls all over itself for both of them.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never heard of Mcnaughtin, but my brief look is enough. Sad

Someone in my county modeled their house after a Thomas Kinkade cabin. They weren't able to make the sky around it a perpetual hazy pink, though. (Incidentally, they make a living selling fake thatched roofing that doesn't need the maintenance of actual thatch, so I think it is a clever advertisement on their part.)
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Kjralon



Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 50
Location: New Jersey, USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Rothide wrote:
The girls there do not look like they are languishing and suffering or anything really bad happening to them, they actually look like they are enjoying themselves, I guess that could just be a front, but even when we got into the place itself, except for del'nique looking sad, we don't really get that from the other devils.


Thing is, that's how they're -being presented-. They're labeled commodities behind glass, with a price-tag attached. I'm not sure how much clearer that could be, considering it's depicted literally.

These kinds of problems are insidious. Some women in the sex industry are physically abused, and it is easier to find outrage for that kind of thing (though still not universal,) and it's awful. Some are trafficked, and there is a special place in hell waiting for every single dick involved with that. You want to see how that sausage is made (see what I did there?) read "Half the Sky." What that book, and others like it, might also do is help you see the rest of what's right in front of you. All the ways, big and small, that add up to women being treated like commodities, femininity and female sexuality as a public good for consumption, to be branded, marketed, and used accordingly, and generally regarded as objects of biological function with different fetish costumes on, even if those costumes are their own skins.

You want to see what's "over there." I think Tat's asking you to see what's right in front of you. The latter can be the harder thing, but ultimately the more important for making a personal change.


Oh man. You just said this more eloquently than I ever could have. <333
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diagram12345



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 116

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ShadowCell wrote:
you don't need to actually be a victim of exploitation and abuse to recognize exploitation and abuse when it happens.


Assuming that we're speaking about adult men and women who have chosen to be sex workers -- why are you relegating all people have chosen to be sex workers to be victims?

People who have chosen to be sex workers have a voice. Don't insult them by attempting to speak for these adult men and women who have made a lifestyle choice.
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Rune



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
Never heard of Mcnaughtin, but my brief look is enough. Sad


*gasp* Just one brief look? But how will you get all the Deep Symbolism (tm) that he puts into every single painting? Just ask him about it, it's just all so symbolic, with symbols for things and everything, like how tears symbolize that someone is sad, and that someone is usually George Washington, who symbolizes God, who symbolizes the USA. He'll tell you all about it. Whether you want him to or not.

That thing about the thatch is cool, though. I could see it being used well.
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stripeypants



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diagram12345 wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
you don't need to actually be a victim of exploitation and abuse to recognize exploitation and abuse when it happens.


Assuming that we're speaking about adult men and women who have chosen to be sex workers -- why are you relegating all people have chosen to be sex workers to be victims?

People who have chosen to be sex workers have a voice. Don't insult them by attempting to speak for these adult men and women who have made a lifestyle choice.


Nobody here says all sex workers are victims. They are saying, "There are victims, and this is why."
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Rune



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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stripeypants wrote:
diagram12345 wrote:
ShadowCell wrote:
you don't need to actually be a victim of exploitation and abuse to recognize exploitation and abuse when it happens.


Assuming that we're speaking about adult men and women who have chosen to be sex workers -- why are you relegating all people have chosen to be sex workers to be victims?

People who have chosen to be sex workers have a voice. Don't insult them by attempting to speak for these adult men and women who have made a lifestyle choice.


Nobody here says all sex workers are victims. They are saying, "There are victims, and this is why."


As well as some more nerdly analysis of how the Sinfest 'verse itself works, and the actual nature of the devil people and their lot in life.
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Darqcyde



Joined: 11 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On another note, can we call 'Curly' Niobe, as an homage to a a certain solitary jewel that was found in certain cesspools:



Maybe she was Tat's inspiration?
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I wanna say (and it's probably been said already, but I don't feel like going through five pages right now) is that I'm glad to see racism being tackled alongside sexism in this comic. Intersectionality is a pretty big deal. Not only are these women being sexualized, but their cultures (and stereotypes about those cultures) are being appropriated for titillation value. That's far too common in reality.
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