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Sexual Orientation, Gender Identity, and the rest
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Kilgore



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
Kilgore - what is the religious opposition?


I was operating under the apparently mistaken assumption that the primary method by which IUD's prevent pregnancy is preventing implantation. I decided to double check that before I replied and apparently the science shows that that isn't actually the case. Because I am Catholic, this is still problematic from a religious perspective, but not as bad as I thought. No worse than the pill, at any rate.
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Finnegan



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was raised catholic, attended catholic school, and that is totally what they taught about IUDs. I had to double check it because I wasn't sure you were right.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well now _i_ have to check it out.

huh. so it prevents fertilization entirely. so sort of a chemical condom.

not that the church thinks much of those...
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mouse wrote:
well now _i_ have to check it out.

huh. so it prevents fertilization entirely. so sort of a chemical condom.

not that the church thinks much of those...

Is it the same with the copper version? I know it has insane antimicrobial properties, but the mechanisms behind it are still not fully understood.
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Kilgore



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I read, IUD's, at least the copper ones, can be used as emergency contraceptives. That implies to me that they can prevent implantation of fertilized eggs, even if the primary mechanism by which they block pregnancy is preventing conception.
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:
Lasairfiona wrote:
Finn - as someone who has wrestled with the idea that maybe my medication defines me more than I do, I would say don't worry about it too much. Seriously. Once you go down the road of "what chemicals are firing that make me me more than I make me me?", well it gets ugly quick.


This has already been a big problem for me. I think I started over-intellectualizing everything as a coping strategy to avoid taking any responsibility. So everything became neurotransmitters this and hormone imbalance that and with the right chemicals I could convince my brain that everything was okay without actually addressing any actual issues. And I guess avoiding chemicals that would actually help because the changes they would make weren't congruent with my idea of who I should be and who I was trying to chemically adjust myself into being.

...

yeah... I don't know where that came from or if it's true or even makes sense. you're right, it gets ugly quick. I think I need to mull this over now.

More free advice! The right chemicals don't exist - you still have to be you and function without thinking that the chemicals run your mind. Brain chemicals don't make your day - they allow you to make your day. Imbalances can influence you but not flatten you (excluding mental illness that is debilitating, not the testosterone you are talking about so apply this appropriately... which is probably topically *rub rub*).
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Darqcyde



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
Finnegan wrote:
Lasairfiona wrote:
Finn - as someone who has wrestled with the idea that maybe my medication defines me more than I do, I would say don't worry about it too much. Seriously. Once you go down the road of "what chemicals are firing that make me me more than I make me me?", well it gets ugly quick.


This has already been a big problem for me. I think I started over-intellectualizing everything as a coping strategy to avoid taking any responsibility. So everything became neurotransmitters this and hormone imbalance that and with the right chemicals I could convince my brain that everything was okay without actually addressing any actual issues. And I guess avoiding chemicals that would actually help because the changes they would make weren't congruent with my idea of who I should be and who I was trying to chemically adjust myself into being.

...

yeah... I don't know where that came from or if it's true or even makes sense. you're right, it gets ugly quick. I think I need to mull this over now.

More free advice! The right chemicals don't exist - you still have to be you and function without thinking that the chemicals run your mind. Brain chemicals don't make your day - they allow you to make your day. Imbalances can influence you but not flatten you (excluding mental illness that is debilitating, not the testosterone you are talking about so apply this appropriately... which is probably topically *rub rub*).

Don't take this as discouragement, but if you take something and it's not working or having a very bad side effect, try something else. Almost unilaterally, everyone I've ever talk to about taking meds for chemical imbalances has told me that they needed to try several different ones, and sometimes even different doses of the same one, before they found one that worked with minimal or no side effects.
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
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Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lasairfiona wrote:
Finnegan wrote:
Lasairfiona wrote:
Finn - as someone who has wrestled with the idea that maybe my medication defines me more than I do, I would say don't worry about it too much. Seriously. Once you go down the road of "what chemicals are firing that make me me more than I make me me?", well it gets ugly quick.


This has already been a big problem for me. I think I started over-intellectualizing everything as a coping strategy to avoid taking any responsibility. So everything became neurotransmitters this and hormone imbalance that and with the right chemicals I could convince my brain that everything was okay without actually addressing any actual issues. And I guess avoiding chemicals that would actually help because the changes they would make weren't congruent with my idea of who I should be and who I was trying to chemically adjust myself into being.

...

yeah... I don't know where that came from or if it's true or even makes sense. you're right, it gets ugly quick. I think I need to mull this over now.

More free advice! The right chemicals don't exist - you still have to be you and function without thinking that the chemicals run your mind. Brain chemicals don't make your day - they allow you to make your day. Imbalances can influence you but not flatten you (excluding mental illness that is debilitating, not the testosterone you are talking about so apply this appropriately... which is probably topically *rub rub*).


as far as the testosterone goes I'm really just concerned that it would make me more masculine, I'm comfortable with and prefer my identity the way it is. I was kind of vague about the rest but what I meant was that I was self-medicating with opioids to manage pain, benzos to alleviate anxiety and inhibitions, amphetamines for energy and motivation (all prescribed by the way, just not used as intended), and then drinking and smoking to elevate my mood. I think I thought that if I just kept taking them I could artificially create the right balance of brain chemistry to make me feel and be the way I wanted to be. somehow I rationalized to myself that if different levels of neurotransmitters were responsible for differing states of mind and moods and since your perceptions, attitudes, thoughts, and feelings are colored by your mood and mindset then the reality of things didn't matter as long as I could find the right combination of drugs to trick my brain and therefore myself into being the way I wanted. because of this, I wasn't taking any of the anti- depressants, epileptics, and psychotics that would actually help because their effects interfered with the conditions I wanted to create. now that I've stopped taking the narcotics I realize that's ridiculous and that the right chemicals don't exist, but I had been taking them for so long that they had completely altered my way of thinking (which sort of only reinforces the idea of how much my brain chemistry defines who I am).
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Heretical Rants



Joined: 21 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilgore wrote:
Lasairfiona wrote:
Kilgore - what is the religious opposition?


I was operating under the apparently mistaken assumption that the primary method by which IUD's prevent pregnancy is preventing implantation. I decided to double check that before I replied and apparently the science shows that that isn't actually the case. Because I am Catholic, this is still problematic from a religious perspective, but not as bad as I thought. No worse than the pill, at any rate.


I've never really understood that particular bit of theology. It's not like it says, "And all zygotes, viable or not, shall be instantly imparted with souls" or w/e anywhere in the Bible.
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Snorri



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
Kilgore wrote:
Lasairfiona wrote:
Kilgore - what is the religious opposition?


I was operating under the apparently mistaken assumption that the primary method by which IUD's prevent pregnancy is preventing implantation. I decided to double check that before I replied and apparently the science shows that that isn't actually the case. Because I am Catholic, this is still problematic from a religious perspective, but not as bad as I thought. No worse than the pill, at any rate.


I've never really understood that particular bit of theology. It's not like it says, "And all zygotes, viable or not, shall be instantly imparted with souls" or w/e anywhere in the Bible.


Yeah if it did that would make God kind of a dick. It's not like there is a 100% fertilization or implantation or birth-rate.
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's closer to 75% of eggs implant. The non-implanting fertilized eggs don't seem to have a reason for not implanting - maybe chromosomal problems.
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Sam



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heretical Rants wrote:
I've never really understood that particular bit of theology. It's not like it says, "And all zygotes, viable or not, shall be instantly imparted with souls" or w/e anywhere in the Bible.


There's a huge and valid question as to whether or not catholicism even understands itself when it comes to the theology of souls and zygotes. The circumstances which led to Humanae Vitae (a reversal on contraception that almost didn't happen) are so profoundly weird that it requires understanding of the kind of incoherent weirdness that's produced by political wrangling and orthodoxy upsets in religious institutions when it comes to establishing and enforcing the will of the divine before, of course, the story on what the will of the divine changes and comes to fit a new model.
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Samsally



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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So hey going off birth control sucks in like at least two really annoying ways but I actually think I prefer it so far. We'll see.
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mouse



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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Heretical Rants wrote:
I've never really understood that particular bit of theology. It's not like it says, "And all zygotes, viable or not, shall be instantly imparted with souls" or w/e anywhere in the Bible.


There's a huge and valid question as to whether or not catholicism even understands itself when it comes to the theology of souls and zygotes. The circumstances which led to Humanae Vitae (a reversal on contraception that almost didn't happen) are so profoundly weird that it requires understanding of the kind of incoherent weirdness that's produced by political wrangling and orthodoxy upsets in religious institutions when it comes to establishing and enforcing the will of the divine before, of course, the story on what the will of the divine changes and comes to fit a new model.


i've started watching "call the midwife", which is set in the 1950's. this week's show was about a baby born with spina bifida, and featured an older nun explaining that the treatment for that used to be a dose of chloral hydrate "so baby died peacefully" - because it was considered more merciful than the life it would have with disabilities. and this was done by actual nuns, clearly with the church's blessing. so yeah - there seem to have been some theological twists and turns happening.
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Lasairfiona



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kilgore never said he was Catholic, did he? I know MANY non-Catholic Christians that thoroughly subscribe to the philosophy that a soul is created at conception. I have never really understood the basis for it except a few passages about God knowing you before you were born and all that.

*edit - wait, he totally did. Um. Yeah. The rest of the statement still stands for the non-Catholics out there.

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After much deliberation he gave her a giant comfort zone. - Michael


Last edited by Lasairfiona on Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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