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2013-04-28: Cult of Masculinity
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khan



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monkey Mcdermott wrote:


See, now violent impulse, every time someone comes here and says something like this as though we've ever EVERFUCKING EVER said otherwise, i want to blow up the world.


That violent impulse is because either you are full of shit (what I have observed in regards to the view that patriarchy harms men), or you stopped being a sane, reasonable human being many comics ago. Actually, I have seen nothing but asshat idiocy when anyone mentions that men also suffer from patriarchy. Note, most men don't. Unfortunately for me, I am tall, handsome, was (deliberately not at this point, so I could ignore bullshit and deal with things that matter, ie finishing my goddamn education, and not trying to bang any girl that sends a signal) very fit looking, and as such, for no logical reason, apparently, I am expected to be a meathead. Fuck that, just like Nique. I was Adonis like at my best, hopefully i can be what i should be without being harassed by everyone i know. Patriarchy has literally fucked over what should have been a pleasant and enjoyable life, and douchemonkey here says he hasn't fucking harassed anyone that dared say men suffered?? Ya know what? Not even gonna read or reply to anything you write, you are a trolling shit, even if you are funny.

I am lucky, even in rl I don't need to worry much what people think of me; not gonna worry what someone says online.

Actually, if you want real discussion, pm me. I'm not very active, but I will accept either apology or old meaning of apology. I have enjoyed posts you made, but I take offence at this stance. Fuck, anyone that posted condescending 'hate feminism' thread deserves a boot. Feminism is no more about the rights of women than it is the rights of men. If you disagree, I will not discuss this with you because you literally know not one shit about feminism. HINT! It's about equality.
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khan wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:


See, now violent impulse, every time someone comes here and says something like this as though we've ever EVERFUCKING EVER said otherwise, i want to blow up the world.


That violent impulse is because either you are full of shit (what I have observed in regards to the view that patriarchy harms men), or you stopped being a sane, reasonable human being many comics ago. Actually, I have seen nothing but asshat idiocy when anyone mentions that men also suffer from patriarchy. Note, most men don't. Unfortunately for me, I am tall, handsome, was (deliberately not at this point, so I could ignore bullshit and deal with things that matter, ie finishing my goddamn education, and not trying to bang any girl that sends a signal) very fit looking, and as such, for no logical reason, apparently, I am expected to be a meathead. Fuck that, just like Nique. I was Adonis like at my best, hopefully i can be what i should be without being harassed by everyone i know. Patriarchy has literally fucked over what should have been a pleasant and enjoyable life, and douchemonkey here says he hasn't fucking harassed anyone that dared say men suffered?? Ya know what? Not even gonna read or reply to anything you write, you are a trolling shit, even if you are funny.

I am lucky, even in rl I don't need to worry much what people think of me; not gonna worry what someone says online.

Actually, if you want real discussion, pm me. I'm not very active, but I will accept either apology or old meaning of apology. I have enjoyed posts you made, but I take offence at this stance. Fuck, anyone that posted condescending 'hate feminism' thread deserves a boot. Feminism is no more about the rights of women than it is the rights of men. If you disagree, I will not discuss this with you because you literally know not one shit about feminism. HINT! It's about equality.


If I could jump in, I think you're both arguing different points, but that you actually mostly agree?

You're saying that the patriarchy hurts men, and it certainly does. Monkey's post was saying that he/she/zie gets annoyed that people post as though the other members here think that the patriarchy doesn't hurt men. You both acknowledge that the patriarchy hurts men.
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khan



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, we are presently arguing the same point, but I admit I am... Unimpressed at his dishonesty here.
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khan wrote:
I agree, we are presently arguing the same point, but I admit I am... Unimpressed at his dishonesty here.


I'm not sure I understand. What do you feel he's being dishonest about?
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aboutwhistles



Joined: 28 Oct 2012
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Er.. feminism as it attempts to operate in this society IS about the rights of women, first and foremost, because women (and other non-heterocismales) are the ones who are disadvantaged under the current system. Feminism BELIEVES in equality, and also believes that breaking down the patriarchy will benefit everone, straight cismen included, but WE ARE TRYING TO LIFT UP WOMEN AND OTHER NON-HETEROCISMEN. So yes. Feminism IS about the rights of women because men have a hell of a lot more rights than anyone else.

with variations upon race and class and sexuality and disability and other axes of opression, of course.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3429
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People come here whining about how feminists (Specifically Tat, since this forum is dedicated to his comic, which espouses feminist themes) don't recognize that men suffer the effects of prejudice while women are lying liars who don't suffer prejudice at all. If the complaints were that men suffer from the patriarchy as well as women...Tat has said as much in Sinfest (For instance, with the dudebro factory comic). Festers who like the feminist slant of Sinfest also bring this up as well.

Unfortunately, it is brought up to a chorus of "The patriarch doesn't exist! Women are sexist sexist sexist, and they hurt men! Men need defending, and women need to be silenced!" So they aren't listening.

The patriarchy is bad for everyone.


Also, I am no Monkey expert, but I think you should consider that other asshats and jerkbutts have come before you, and others will come after you. Even as we speak, unholy forces are aligning to set up the next round of screed-spillers who will come in, be unaware of how the forums work, be barely aware of the comic, and utterly uneducated about feminism. You don't have to agree with feminism, but if you don't want Monkey to tell you off, maybe don't come across as the dudebro of the moment. Read up on the forums, read up on the comic, read up on feminism, and prepare for a difficult argument.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3333

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

khan wrote:
Monkey Mcdermott wrote:


See, now violent impulse, every time someone comes here and says something like this as though we've ever EVERFUCKING EVER said otherwise, i want to blow up the world.


That violent impulse is because either you are full of shit (what I have observed in regards to the view that patriarchy harms men), or you stopped being a sane, reasonable human being many comics ago. Actually, I have seen nothing but asshat idiocy when anyone mentions that men also suffer from patriarchy. Note, most men don't. Unfortunately for me, I am tall, handsome, was (deliberately not at this point, so I could ignore bullshit and deal with things that matter, ie finishing my goddamn education, and not trying to bang any girl that sends a signal) very fit looking, and as such, for no logical reason, apparently, I am expected to be a meathead. Fuck that, just like Nique. I was Adonis like at my best, hopefully i can be what i should be without being harassed by everyone i know. Patriarchy has literally fucked over what should have been a pleasant and enjoyable life, and douchemonkey here says he hasn't fucking harassed anyone that dared say men suffered?? Ya know what? Not even gonna read or reply to anything you write, you are a trolling shit, even if you are funny.

I am lucky, even in rl I don't need to worry much what people think of me; not gonna worry what someone says online.

Actually, if you want real discussion, pm me. I'm not very active, but I will accept either apology or old meaning of apology. I have enjoyed posts you made, but I take offence at this stance. Fuck, anyone that posted condescending 'hate feminism' thread deserves a boot. Feminism is no more about the rights of women than it is the rights of men. If you disagree, I will not discuss this with you because you literally know not one shit about feminism. HINT! It's about equality.


Clutch your pearls somewhere else fuckface. What you interpret as us denying that the patriarchy hurts men, is actually us saying, yes but how is that relevant to the discussion we're currently having. You want to talk about how patriarchy hurts men? START A FUCKING THREAD ASSHAT. The issue is that it's offensive that fuckwads continue to enter into discussions about OTHER people's patriarchal induced issues and try to turn it into a discussion about THE MENFOLKS patriarchal induced issues. Just start your own fucking thread, if you make valid points i promise you will get positive interaction. I suggest making the title as inoffensive as possible to avoid implying that you're the ones trolling though. General forum plays rough.
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khan



Joined: 10 Feb 2013
Posts: 168

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:
khan wrote:
I agree, we are presently arguing the same point, but I admit I am... Unimpressed at his dishonesty here.


I'm not sure I understand. What do you feel he's being dishonest about?


I do not see any room for misunderstanding here. I stated that what he was saying was completely incongruous with anything that ignorant fucktard had stated. I happen to be an ardent feminist, if not an ally. Any feminist that thinks a man cannot be an ally is either not aware of reality, or is deliberately using feminism to push a progyno, if not necessarily misandrist view. Note, I stated I had only read a certain frame of forum posts, yet in every single one, he ignored the reality of male suffering to the exclusion of the suffering of women, which to be honest, is somewhat exaggerated in these comics for the sake of irony. Xanthe is not really a mature feminist, despite my fondness for her.

Next!

Stripes, whom I feel I have not hugely disagreed with to date, feminism is literally about equality. There is no wrong quest for it. No one group gets magical significance. Women, blacks (I am canadian. We can say black here), transgender, socialists, etc. All are interested in equality, which is what feminism is about. Academically speaking. Which to me is the primary form. Obviously the goal is to address the most egregious wrongs, but that's not exclusively women. Technically, if you are daring to take the 'lets stick to the worst' scenario, uh, yeah, women are FAR behind lesbians, gays, transgender and definitely behind transsexuals. Not gonna budge on this, period. Women have a more difficult life on average than the average straight male, but they aren't even close to the most fucked over by society, nor do they deserve exclusive support from feminism. The name is in fact misleading. As I said, academically, it is about equality.

Now, judging by most of your previous posts, I don't think we have a very differing view, and I assure you, I am about as far as you can get from an asshole. Period. However, if you harass those without a voice (bizarrely enough that's men here IN THIS thread right now), then I am not interested I shutting up. Nor are you about to out debate me. Well, who knows! But I highly doubt it.

See, here is the problem; I stated why I agree with feminism, yet you inexplicably insist that I do not. I believe in equality period, and do not support gender roles period. Unlike most people, male or female, I literally could be the ideal of my gender, like Nique, but would prefer not to. As a result, horrible shit goes on in my life. Under the premise that if I 'fit in', I will be magically happier versus doing, you know, things that actually make me happy. So yeah, as a tall, big, handsome jock-looking guy that loves his nerdy pursuits, also gardening, cooking and art, I end up a social pariah, and worse, people arrange for a trained fighter to 'randomly' assault me. Cuz you know, pacifism is girls and shit. Funny shit? I used to be truly obese, meaning I got my tits groped. So yeah, most women have been groped less than me, despite the fact that I beat the bejesus out of some guys that did it, due t temper. Guess what? I know a woman's pain better than most women. I was a fat borderline retard. I got better on both counts, but I remember being marginalized, even when I didn't deserve to be. I am still autistic now, and even now, my life is made deliberately difficult.

Monkey, the douche that ignored my request...

Suck my pearls somewhere else you insecure tool. What I literally have read, as I stated is an absence of sympathy. I have seen some asshole men that want only recognition of their own vague sufferings (basically, the ones bitching because a comic they like is making jokes at their expense, which has rarely been an issue for me) which get berated appropriately, but you have never actually taken an adult view towards the few valid complaints that have come up. So yeah, I don't have to start a thread, nor do I need obnoxious dipshit giant red text to yell my ultimately valid point.

Hey monkeymcdumbfuck, you kinda brought it up with your yell, remember? That's why I don't need to make a thread. Cuz you made this thread about it. So go suck an egg if you are pissed that you made the thread about a topic you didn't want! OMG! Men have the exact same issues, since the only real fucking issue, you ignorant troll, is equality. Period.

General forum plays rough??? I wish I had a fucking keyboard to type. Yep, I am pissed enough to type this on a fucking tablet. Do not fucking claim feminism for one group; support all disadvantaged. That includes the loser dudebros that are pissed about the fact that society doesn't want to give them a clue what to do. Note, I am not remotely a dudebro, but I expect the explanation for them.

So yeah, you don't want men to call shit on you monkey? Don't say shit then.
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Ronald



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 3365

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John in Tronna wrote:
Who says they are all women? They may be all variations of non-straightcismale -- women of any variety, gay people, trans* people, even straight cis- males who perhaps do not achieve an acceptable level of testosterone-soaked masculinity.


Well, okay, but the larger question -- are they Fembots? AIs? WTH? -- remains the same.
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Mercian



Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khan wrote:


...women are FAR behind lesbians, gays, transgender and definitely behind transsexuals. Not gonna budge on this, period...

...Guess what? I know a woman's pain better than most women. I was a fat borderline retard...



It's like a banquet of awful.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3333

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

khan wrote:

So yeah, you don't want men to call shit on you monkey? Don't say shit then.


The minute one actually shows up to do so rather than an endless string of little boys who want to snivel and whine about feminist subject matter in a comic and how mean we all are for not acknowledging a mans pain I might be concerned, til then though . . .



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Arkhron



Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Posts: 266

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Khan, my personal experience in this forum: I did what monkey says. I opened a thread with ideas for the comic and talked about the pain of being a man in the patriarchy.

All the responses were positive and encouraging. The post didn't standed for long, because there were no "sustance" to keep the responses coming, but the point here is: McDermott is right, in his direct, harsh manners, but still right.
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Monkey Mcdermott



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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arkhron wrote:
Khan, my personal experience in this forum: I did what monkey says. I opened a thread with ideas for the comic and talked about the pain and hardiness of being a man in the patriarchy.

All the responses were positive and encouraging. The post didn't standed for long, because there were no "sustance" to keep the responses coming, but the point here is: McDermott is right, in his direct, harsh manners, but still right.


Threads like that have a tendency to sink and resurface when new discussion points come to light. General is pretty good about pulling up old threads to reignite discussion rather than starting new ones.

Also
Quote:
Do not fucking claim feminism for one group; support all disadvantaged. That includes the loser dudebros that are pissed about the fact that society doesn't want to give them a clue what to do. Note, I am not remotely a dudebro, but I expect the explanation for them.


do you not get how shitty and entitled this sounds? Neither you nor anyone actually old enough to register and post on these forums themselves is entitled to having their hand held through the process of NOT being a shitty person. We don't owe you or anyone else an education on feminism 101, that is not the purpose of the board and anyone willing to take on battering these concepts into the heads of people who feel the need to find equivalence between the oppression of patriarchy on men, and that of patriarchy on women/gays/transgendered/whathaveyou, does so out of a surplus of patience and the goodness of their heart, not because someone is "owed" a blueprint on how not to be shitty. We are not your gender studies teachers and we owe random folks who sign up to whine nothing, not polite interaction, not education, nothing.
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Geareye



Joined: 21 Mar 2013
Posts: 287

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sorry but since the posting of cute baby animals in a forum about webcomic that focuses on social agendas is common practice, in no way does any topic have sovereignty over any thread. Persons can try to change the current topic and other persons can ignore/bash them, but in no way is the argument "This thread isn't about this" valid in here.
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Monkey Mcdermott



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3333

PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geareye wrote:
I am sorry but since the posting of cute baby animals in a forum about webcomic that focuses on social agendas is common practice, in no way does any topic have sovereignty over any thread. Persons can try to change the current topic and other persons can ignore/bash them, but in no way is the argument "This thread isn't about this" valid in here.


Except the difference is derailments into silly are one thing, derailments into "I KNOW YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WOMENS PROBLEMS BUT LETS TALK ABOUT MENS (smaller in comparison) PROBLEMS NOW...HEY.....HEY......HEY....STOP TALKING ABOUT THAT AND TALK ABOUT MENS PROBLEMS....HEY.....HEY STOP...STOP....STOP TALKING ABOUT WOMENS PROBLEMS, MISANDRY!!

You want to derail like that, reap the whirlwind.
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