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[4/29/13] She Misandried Me!
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Felgraf



Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 710

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
Yinello wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
lol wrote:
Maswartz wrote:
Also the fact she keeps collecting tears is one of the biggest reasons I dislike the whole sisterhood thing. When you start collecting tears you automatically go into the villain column for me

Could you explain why?

Or is this another, "I hate that they are usually right, so I must find something to twist around and demonize them with" attempt?


They did explain why-they stated that due to a book they read (in which a morally reprehensible character collects tears for his own use/amusement), the act of gathering another's tears for one's own personal use and/or enjoyment is rather linked to such horrible behaviors in his/her mind.

They explained it like *three posts* after the one you're complaining about.


SA_Penguin said that, not Maswartz. Different people.

Or are they? *conspiracy eyebrow waggle*


Ah damnit I missed that. That's what I get for popping in on low sleep and before I've had coffee.

Yinello beat me to it.

Also, I didn't complain. I asked two questions.


Aye, apologies. I suppose I also took your second question as a bit more accusatory/complaining (and became annoyed since.. I *thought* the person had already answered your question, but I erred. >.<)

Sorry!
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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kjralon wrote:
Rune wrote:
I have yet to see nearly as much thoughtful critique of the feminist movement as I've seen self-justifying, confirmation-biased, antagonistic blather against it, and -none- of the movement's actual problems were touched on in this particular strip, let alone have been by the comic at large. Those trying to bash the movement according to this strip's story are importing their own issues here.

Are there things to critique, historically and currently? Yes. Does that negate the movement's continued necessity or the rightness of its overall goals? No. Does the movement have to acknowledge every piece of antagonistic blather against it in order to prove it's sufficiently self-aware of its flaws? No. And a good thing, too. It wouldn't have time for anything else.

I'm not too comfortable with the tears metaphor either, but the fact is, it's a pretty powerful lampshade of typical slander against feminists. (They just want to hurt the mens!) But the Sisterhood is not -out- to make the menfolk cry. The funnel pretty much only shows up when they're crying "misandry!" or otherwise proving the need for the cause. I'm pretty sure the Sisterhood would consider it to be a good thing if there were no more dudebro tears because that would be a considerable drop in world pain a) for the people the dudebros marginalize and objectify, and b) for the dudebros would be all growed up into better, wiser, happier people whose sense of personal value did not depend on other people existing for or pandering to them in some way.


I love you almost as much as I love Stripeypants. And Valerie, because she's cool, but also because that is also my name and us Valeries need to stick together.


We're a rare breed. Very Happy

Rune wrote:
I'm feelin' the love. ^^ Thanks, to you and Valerie, lol


<3

Reader1 wrote:
[varoius comics of women being objectified]


Thank you! I was thinking of the one with Nurse Emma Beth, but I couldn't remember where exactly it was.

Also, that is deff one of my favorite Sisterhood strips.
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Succubus1982



Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 919
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reader1 wrote:


Another random drive-by-posting but..... it just occured to me. This Emma/Beth/Nurse Whatever character is a redhead. Do you suppose theres a remote chance she's the mother/elder sister of Pebbles BEFORE she was devilgirlified? I mean I know thats a stretch theres probably any number of millions of redheads in the sinfest world, but then again the sinfest world is rather small since its sectioned into 'zones' and as prooven by Squig himself it's possible to walk out of the comic and into other comics if you go far enough, ergo it's possible to leave that world and enter another. So it could be that the relative number of redheaded families is quite small, and then perhaps it would be logical. Maybe? It's a theory I like in any case Smile
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Rune



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 1046

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:
Rune wrote:

YOU are the reason "why feminism," ya tadpole.


Hey now, that is COMPLETELY unfair.

The only frog/former tadpole whose opinion I know seems to be pretty open to alternate gender roles. And species roles. And whatever-Gonzo-is-roles.

Seriously, lumping Kermit in with that group is totally unfair. =(

/Sorry I have been cooped up in the lab for several hours and the coffee's wearing off.
//Getting a wee bit loopy.


Heh, tell you what. You find me another term that I can use to handily call someone slimy and immature all at once, with bonus overtones of weird andro-centricity all ready for those so inclined to read into it, and I'll consider adopting it for Kermit's sake.
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

found this earlier today, seemed apropos.

Quote:

Effects of Misogyny:
-Rape
-Abuse
-Murder
-Lower pay
-Less opportunities
-General discrimination
-Loss of power
-Restrictive gender roles
-And much more

Effects of Misandry:
-Hurt feelings



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Valerie



Joined: 02 Apr 2013
Posts: 263

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rune wrote:
Felgraf wrote:
Rune wrote:

YOU are the reason "why feminism," ya tadpole.


Hey now, that is COMPLETELY unfair.

The only frog/former tadpole whose opinion I know seems to be pretty open to alternate gender roles. And species roles. And whatever-Gonzo-is-roles.

Seriously, lumping Kermit in with that group is totally unfair. =(

/Sorry I have been cooped up in the lab for several hours and the coffee's wearing off.
//Getting a wee bit loopy.


Heh, tell you what. You find me another term that I can use to handily call someone slimy and immature all at once, with bonus overtones of weird andro-centricity all ready for those so inclined to read into it, and I'll consider adopting it for Kermit's sake.


How about a snake? They aren't actually slimy, and I guess it's only immature if it's a baby snake, but... well... okay, maybe that one's not so good.

How about mold? Mold can be slimy. Ooh, or fungus.

Okay, I'm grossing myself out.
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crayven



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 267

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Valerie wrote:

That was me, and it may be an issue of wording. What I meant to say was more that... sexism-towards-women is a legitimate thing because it is wide-spread, while sexism-toward-men is less legitimate because it's not as wide-spread

/facepalm
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Zhuinden



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 284

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crayven wrote:
Valerie wrote:

That was me, and it may be an issue of wording. What I meant to say was more that... sexism-towards-women is a legitimate thing because it is wide-spread, while sexism-toward-men is less legitimate because it's not as wide-spread

/facepalm


Just because it's not wild-spread it doesn't mean it's insignificant. Stereotyping based on gender is the dumbest thing one can do, and that's quite a common form of sexism.
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lol



Joined: 16 Nov 2012
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felgraf wrote:

Aye, apologies. I suppose I also took your second question as a bit more accusatory/complaining (and became annoyed since.. I *thought* the person had already answered your question, but I erred. >.<)

Sorry!

We're cool. Just a misunderstanding.
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Dennis J. Squidbunny



Joined: 09 Jul 2006
Posts: 3714
Location: AUSTRALIA YOU FAKIR

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zhuinden wrote:
crayven wrote:
Valerie wrote:

That was me, and it may be an issue of wording. What I meant to say was more that... sexism-towards-women is a legitimate thing because it is wide-spread, while sexism-toward-men is less legitimate because it's not as wide-spread

/facepalm


Just because it's not wild-spread it doesn't mean it's insignificant. Stereotyping based on gender is the dumbest thing one can do, and that's quite a common form of sexism.


now is the time for you guys to drop some sweet news articles on incidents and effects of sexism towards men. GO!
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Salpta



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Sailing the steel breeze.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Men assumed to be sexual predators: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1035315/Father-branded-pervert--photographing-children-public-park.html

Effects of sons raised by single mothers: Less desirable adult mates: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/21/business/economy/as-men-lose-economic-ground-clues-in-the-family.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

Violence against men marginalized in Vancouver: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/09/10/mens-rights-posters-vancouver_n_1871526.html

Paternity Leave.

The just-changed definition of rape so that the statistic can accuately track rape of men (Statistical definition used to limit it to women only. Rape of a man was just called "Sexual Assault" and didn't carry the full weight of Rape charges). http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/06/justice/rape-definition-revised

And the general assumption that anything pro-Man is automatically anti-woman.

I love you Dennis, You're one of my favorite sinfesters (I have a list of your rather inventive curses that I use), but there is Sexism towards men. Feminism being the belief that Women are People, also means that they can make the same mistakes as anyone else. Including being hate-mongers
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am reasonably sure that sexism is a different concept than discrimination. Like privilege, it has to do with who has the power, and what is happening outside that one interaction.

http://thetruthasisawittoday.wordpress.com/2013/04/08/on-male-sexism-and-sociological-sexism/
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Salpta



Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Sailing the steel breeze.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stripey, That entry has one glaring flaw: Female privilege exists and is used as a power against men as well. Much like any privilege though, those with it rarely see it as a privilege.

Without making an itemized and incomplete list of female privilege, I will posit the following: Women control most of the family and procreation privileges; and women extract more leniency from the law & society.

As I was told once, and as I tell others: When talking about privilege, you need to check yours at the door.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I'm not sure that discrimination is the proper word here. I'll have to do some research and thinking about it.

Settle in with your juice box and a blanket, because it is time for an illustrative story!

The idea that any form of marginalization/oppression must have an equal and opposite form within the ranks of the marginalized/oppressed is really not an argument wrong. It is predicated on the notion that everyone is actually equal, and they are not. Should be, but are not.

If everyone had equal opportunity to reach the top, then it might be valid to say that the people who don't reach it simply don't want to. But if some groups of people are tied to large rocks or have broken legs or various other obstacles, then the assumption everyone is starting out equal is invalid.

(For the sake of this argument, imagine that there is no food at the bottom and there is plenty of food at the top. There is some food distribution, but people with impediments receive less of it, sometimes none at all. People without impediments don't receive uniform amounts, but what they receive is enough to live healthily on.)

If someone with no impediments is talking to someone with impediments and saying, "I have troubles too. Sometimes I have pebbles in my shoe!", they are equating inconvenience with huge impassable obstacles.

If someone with no impediments has their legs broken on the way up or someone shackles them to a big rock, that doesn't change the fact they were able to participate in the race to the top in the first place.

If one of the people with broken legs or a rock tied to them manages to slog their way to the top, that doesn't mean that everyone at the bottom should be able to do the same. That means the person who made it to the top performed some superhuman feats. Their presence at the top points out the fact that so many like them are stuck at the bottom.

If one of the people stuck at the bottom manages to catch you halfway up and cut your achilles tendons so you can't run anymore, that isn't equal to the systemic unfairness faced by the other person. To make it equal, there would have to be a constant slew of people coming to cut the achilles tendons of people who look like you - and you can bet that people like yourself wouldn't get to the top in such high numbers.

In this case, there is a systemic disadvantage for people with impediments, and a systemic advantage for people without impediments. Any individual disadvantages that crop up for someone without impediments does not put them in the same category as a person with impediments, because the impediment-lacker had the benefits of good nutrition all their lives and the opportunity to travel up the hill - to a place where better opportunities await.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
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Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Salpta wrote:
Stripey, That entry has one glaring flaw: Female privilege exists and is used as a power against men as well. Much like any privilege though, those with it rarely see it as a privilege.

Without making an itemized and incomplete list of female privilege, I will posit the following: Women control most of the family and procreation privileges; and women extract more leniency from the law & society.

As I was told once, and as I tell others: When talking about privilege, you need to check yours at the door.


No, female privilege does not exist, and this is an example of an argument that has to be had over and over and over and over again, wearing people down. Are you watching, folks who complain about snarky, insulting feminists?
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