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Yoga and why I feel Sinfest s telling me to get the hell out
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aboutwhistles



Joined: 28 Oct 2012
Posts: 140

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the other hand, discomfort is the first step to learning something new!

Seriously. Learning new things makes you feel dumb, because you've never before considered the concepts you're now being exposed to. There's a learning curve. Sinfest, and especially the people on these forums, can teach you a lot about how gender works in our society. If you can get over your initial discomfort and actually listen to what they're saying, that is.
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WellYesYouMay



Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 49

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that your analysis says a lot more about how you see yourself than what Sinfest is saying as a comic.
If you read the comic every day, it's painstakingly clear that the message isn't "get out white cis hetero men", but "get out sexist racist homophobic creeps, or get your head out of your own privilege".
Sooo, what does your response say about you, exactly?
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Drowemos



Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strawberrycocoa you picked the wrong place to ask if this question. While Tat probably doesn't want you to leave (he is a business man after all) the members of this forum definitely want you and everyone else with differing opinions to leave and then die horrible lingering deaths. In short the people here are jerks.

I believe that Tat is not try to scare away people, I think he legitimately wants to convert you his new way of thinking. Granted the method is so ham fisted and the viewpoint is so monolithic and poorly thought out that it does come off as a insult. Sinfest has basically become a feminist Chik Tract where the goal is to convert but the result is just laughable at best and down right insulting at worst. Tat isn't trying to attack Hetro males hes just really bad at promoting his viewpoints.

The bigger question is why are we still here? Why haven't people like you and I not left? I still check Sinfest now and then even though it's lost most of it's entertainment value. So why do I check it? It's a behavior that confuses me even as I type in the sinfest.net link.

And as for posting on the forms what do we hope to accomplish here? I already know the response to my post is going to be anger and venom. And frankly that is a rational response.

Do you walk into Super Bowel party loudly declaring that football is a savage sport that has long lasting negative effect on it's player and then ask for a beer? No, of course not. That would be a very rude thing to do. As is coming to the Sinfest party and start pointing out the logical flaws in the strip and then expected to be treated with respect. We are basically ruining these guys fun and they have a right to their fun.

And yet here I am and here you are. And for my self I have no idea why. Habit mostly I suspect, and perhaps little faith/hope that Tat's talents will eventually shining through again.
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stripeypants



Joined: 24 Feb 2013
Posts: 3152
Location: Land of the Grumpuses

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one don't want anyone to die a fiery death. I want to have good conversations, and this person is not demonstrating skill in having them.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6025
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drowemos is here because deep down, everything he's complaining about doesn't really matter that much to him. he's full of shit and you can safely ignore him as such. if he really found it so awful and terrible, he wouldn't be here.

that's why you're here, by the way. you're not here to "hold out hope that he'll become a misogynistic dickbag like you again." you're not here to evangelize for the red pill. you're not here to "point out logical flaws," especially since you have never done that and every time you try you get spanked by people who point out the logical flaws of what you say instead.

you're not here for any of that. you're here because you're just full of shit.

if you want to prove me wrong, then do so! protip: the method would be to leave.
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Him



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 4175
Location: On edge

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drowemos wrote:
Strawberrycocoa you picked the wrong place to ask if this question. While Tat probably doesn't want you to leave (he is a business man after all) the members of this forum definitely want you and everyone else with differing opinions to leave and then die horrible lingering deaths. In short the people here are jerks.

I believe that Tat is not try to scare away people, I think he legitimately wants to convert you his new way of thinking. Granted the method is so ham fisted and the viewpoint is so monolithic and poorly thought out that it does come off as a insult. Sinfest has basically become a feminist Chik Tract where the goal is to convert but the result is just laughable at best and down right insulting at worst. Tat isn't trying to attack Hetro males hes just really bad at promoting his viewpoints.

The bigger question is why are we still here? Why haven't people like you and I not left? I still check Sinfest now and then even though it's lost most of it's entertainment value. So why do I check it? It's a behavior that confuses me even as I type in the sinfest.net link.

And as for posting on the forms what do we hope to accomplish here? I already know the response to my post is going to be anger and venom. And frankly that is a rational response.

Do you walk into Super Bowel party loudly declaring that football is a savage sport that has long lasting negative effect on it's player and then ask for a beer? No, of course not. That would be a very rude thing to do. As is coming to the Sinfest party and start pointing out the logical flaws in the strip and then expected to be treated with respect. We are basically ruining these guys fun and they have a right to their fun.

And yet here I am and here you are. And for my self I have no idea why. Habit mostly I suspect, and perhaps little faith/hope that Tat's talents will eventually shining through again.

Oh no, not your brilliant logical flaw tracking mind. Which logical flaws would that be again..? I've been reading the comic for over 11 years. And I'm quite glad it has taken the direction it has. Why? Because I'm no longer 13 that's why. I think tat has made some absolutely brilliant strips lately and that they're lost on you...well. No surprise there.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6025
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Strawberrycocoa



Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 31

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can totally understand that I am crashing a party I wasn't invited to in the first place here. I don't think people are being jerks.

And maybe I am being a touch defensive, then and now. Sort of regret posting at all now, really. I just... well I try my best not to be a dickbag but this was a fail I guess. Sorry if I pissed anyone off. :/
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I don't really think these comics are telling men to get the hell out, that's not their purpose, I rather think that these comics are used to generate hits to his website.

I did a bit of researching on Sinfest's web traffic from analysis sites, and found something interesting, when he does the normal comics, (fushia and crim, Symour, etc,) hits to his web comic start dropping and then normalize, but when he does a series of Feminism strips, they start rising, getting higher untill he goes back to doing a normal comic.

This may be an unintentional side effect of his Fighting for Feminism, or it could be like Kotaku and using Sexism to get hits. Since I can't read his mind I will never know, I believe he started it as a way to bring feminism into his comic, but after he saw the site visits start to rocket (and thus more add revenue) he will do these comics to keep viewership high.

Note though, that I find a lot of what Kotaku did in this article http://kotaku.com/game-developers-really-need-to-stop-letting-teenage-boy-472724616 and http://kotaku.com/the-real-problem-with-that-controversial-sexy-video-ga-478120280 to be the same things Tat is doing in his comic
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think any of us were actually invited here. don't be concerned whether your first impression was a failure or not, just keep trying your best not to be a dickbag. and as for regretting what you posted, I probably regret half my posts when I run across them a few days later and wondering what the hell I was thinking when I typed that (of course that's only in those instances when I was sober enough to actually remember being online and posting that night).

just for the record we were being jerks but it's not entirely because of you, most of us just are jerks.
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Formerly Green_Finn

hey! rock bottom's not that bad
we've got glow-in-the-dark fish down here that's rad
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
This may be an unintentional side effect of his Fighting for Feminism, or it could be like Kotaku and using Sexism to get hits. Since I can't read his mind I will never know, I believe he started it as a way to bring feminism into his comic, but after he saw the site visits start to rocket (and thus more add revenue) he will do these comics to keep viewership high.


I don't pretend to know tat but from the impression I've gotten over the past ten years or so (jesus christ! how can it have really been that long?) I find that very unlikely.
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Formerly Green_Finn

hey! rock bottom's not that bad
we've got glow-in-the-dark fish down here that's rad
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Rothide



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 852

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finnegan wrote:
Rothide wrote:
This may be an unintentional side effect of his Fighting for Feminism, or it could be like Kotaku and using Sexism to get hits. Since I can't read his mind I will never know, I believe he started it as a way to bring feminism into his comic, but after he saw the site visits start to rocket (and thus more add revenue) he will do these comics to keep viewership high.


I don't pretend to know tat but from the impression I've gotten over the past ten years or so (jesus christ! how can it have really been that long?) I find that very unlikely.


Don't forget though, more hits = more revenue, if you stumbled into an abandoned gold mine and gold lined the walls, and it was easily accessible from your house, I don't think you'd just walk away from that and forget about it.
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ShadowCell



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 6025
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

on the other hand, if that is the case, then you--all you people who hate this stuff--are helping ensure that it continues by continuing to visit his site and look at his comic and post on his forum

which is lol to the max man
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Finnegan



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 1080
Location: in that cool mountain air, on an appalachian trail

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rothide wrote:
Finnegan wrote:
Rothide wrote:
This may be an unintentional side effect of his Fighting for Feminism, or it could be like Kotaku and using Sexism to get hits. Since I can't read his mind I will never know, I believe he started it as a way to bring feminism into his comic, but after he saw the site visits start to rocket (and thus more add revenue) he will do these comics to keep viewership high.


I don't pretend to know tat but from the impression I've gotten over the past ten years or so (jesus christ! how can it have really been that long?) I find that very unlikely.


Don't forget though, more hits = more revenue, if you stumbled into an abandoned gold mine and gold lined the walls, and it was easily accessible from your house, I don't think you'd just walk away from that and forget about it.


unless you had something like artistic integrity that you weren't willing to compromise for a little extra cash. I mean it's not like tat could actually care about the patriarchal discrimination of women.
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Formerly Green_Finn

hey! rock bottom's not that bad
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Drowemos



Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strawberrycocoa wrote:
I can totally understand that I am crashing a party I wasn't invited to in the first place here. I don't think people are being jerks.

And maybe I am being a touch defensive, then and now. Sort of regret posting at all now, really. I just... well I try my best not to be a dickbag but this was a fail I guess. Sorry if I pissed anyone off. :/


Don't take it personally. You didn't do anything wrong you just posted in a place that is not going to be receptive to this concern. They have been fighting this battle for a long time and have a tendency to lump all critics together. There have been some pretty vile stuff said about the feminist turn in sinfest and you are just being conflated with those early critics. You did nothing wrong but once there was a person who had the same concern who was very rude.

You can kind of see it as weak form of post traumatic response. The guys are have fun and then someone mentions something that brings up bad memories and they instantly switch to howler monkey mode.

And here is the thing I wonder about myself. I know that my presence ruins the party. I know that more people will flip out because I post this message telling you it's not your fault. And I am not a malicious person by nature. I don't want to hurt people.

So why do I come back here? I honestly don't understand this about myself. I guess its because I do want to have a discussion, at it's heart this is something that interests me. I hope like all people to be listened to. But that really can't happen here just like a war veteran can enjoy surprise fireworks the sinfest forum can't have a rational discussion about feminism.

But I am honestly glad I was here this time. Tat doesn't want you to leave hes just not very good a putting a message in his strips. He will get better over time, I hope. Don't confuse over compensation and heavy handedness for malice.

The forum... well they do have malice but that just because they have been hurt in the past. It's not about you it's about them.
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